Too much of a high-roll advantage. If they draw it in time, you lose. If they don’t, they lose. It doesn’t make for skilled gameplay to have a deck so determined by one card. The card needs to only summon two. It is too powerful. No need to nerf all of Druid. Just fix the broken card.
Even after the nerfs, Dungar Druid is destroying the meta. I feel like it should cost 10 and summon 2. Just butcher it. Whenever a neutral big card gets too powerful, Druid gets over the top.
If the deck took skill to play, that’d be one thing. It is the single easiest deck to play in this meta. What to do? Mulligan for ramp and Dungar. GG, play the green outlined cards.
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Dungar should be more like fun cards but with cards like splitting spacerock, thunderbringer, yogg, eonar, stargazer, factory assembly bot, zilliax it helps creating pressure particularly during that turn which dungar or hydration station being played. The deck plays by itself, to some extent asteroid shaman is similar in this case. If you happen to play late game decks which aren’t geared towards otk or attrition it’s near impossible to beat dungar druid.
I have no idea how to fix dungar, targeting the ramp cards were always blizzard answers like what they did to innervate and wild growth, when the actual issue is one particular deck and playstyle not all of them. Druid is my favorite class in hearthstone, but I just can’t seem to muster the willpower to play dungar deck since it’s so freaking boring.
2 Likes
It’s absolutely impossible to reliably tech against. There is no counter. Only solution is aggro or swarm, which explains the meta today. If one can’t win by 5 or 6, he loses to Dungar. Sometimes one still loses.
Zilliax as well continues to be problematic, but I think it allows for some creative archetypes. However I am not a fan of all of these super-powerful neutrals. I think class identity needs to be restored, but that is for another thread. For now, nerf Dungar. Let’s see what happens as a result.
5 Likes
The issue is very much the ramp. If its not dungar, denathrius, infinite loops, humongous dragons its something else.
Having 10 mana turn 6 is bad design. Breaking the 10 mana cap is bad design. Druid is bad design and has been since forever. Especially these days when ramp is relatively risk free due to insane armor gain and healing.
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So why does magic the gathering able to get away with green being the ramp color?? They have much more ridiculous tutor cards. It’s not the ramp itself it’s just some neutral cards able to compensate what druid lacks which makes things worse.
Its not dungar at all… Nebula shaman can reliably get out nebula on turn 5 or even turn 4 with a highroll… big spell mage can get off its big spell on turn 5 after king tide… reno priest can do that one card that summons a bunch of things with the parrot sanctuary. I’m sure theres more, thats just what I remember off hand.
The problem is just printing mana cheat cards and then these giant build a board cards that companion them. Dungar just is the ‘easy mode’ version of the many similar decks in the game.
3 Likes
they have to get dungar and not pull yogg +zillax or mind control tech take away half their board
Play fast/aggro and they always lose unless your low roll massively. That deck is a mid-range/slow killer, very bad defense early game.
Because mtgs mechanics are fundamentally different. You can counter the ramp, shoot the mana dork (creatures tapping for mana) or take over the board while opponent spends 4 mana playing 2 lands. Mtg also lets you do stuff on opponents turn so whatever creature they play on their turn after ramping you may just kill on their endstep. Or counter it, bounce it, tuck it…
Mtg also has a less restricted system where colors can be mixed freely. That green color ramp is available with every other color so its not like HS that goes “nope, only druid gets 16 mana, sry”.
You can stuff that green ramp in a golgari beatdown deck, a simic control shell or whatever you want.
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It’s true you could play as green deck and able to get that benefits what about if you are playing something like grixis or jeskai?? It’s not uncommon to see decks with green has 8-10 mana with only turn 5-6
i doubt this deck will survive rotation
Grixis should be having bounces, counters and other instants available. Black also gets you access to mind rot type of spells and black also has some of the best hard temoval of all the colors. And since grixis also runs red thats another color with excellent removal options like abrade which even touches enchantments.
Jeskai has dirty fliers which green is notoriously bad at handling with their limited removal. Be wary of reachers and counter fight spells trying to nab your birds and take over the skies.
Esper also has great game against green. Theres alot of options.
Having mana is great and you cant always stop the ramp but you still have game against whatever comes after the ramp alot of the time. But mtg no doubt has its fair share of bs theres no doubt about that.
There was a time when the card’s power dictated its cost. Thus, a card that costs 5 mana SHOULD have more power than a card that costs 1 to USE. And that is the problem. This cost is predicated on the player actually paying the cost to use that card. Cards like Dungar completely obliterate this concept and so does breaking the 10 mana cap for that matter. This has been an issue with druid since that hell-spawned Hero card Guff was printed, and now we also have to deal with that bs with warriors. It doesn’t make for good gaming, much less fun gaming, to have two classes that can have a much larger mana pool than the other. I know Ramp is supposed to be a druid thing, but Blizzard really went overboard when they also said let Druids have more than 10 mana because…reasons? Blizzard just wants their beloved druid to do more than others I guess.
2 Likes
So what about counterspell and ice trap then it’s the same thing. Hearthstone may not have you disrupt the opposing player actions during their turn but there are plenty of cards to use to counter such strategy, there are cards like cult neophyte and speaker stomper in standard.
Oh please. Counterspell isnt even run in any standard decks. Those are road bumps for your opponent to deal with before moving on.
Wheres the mind rots? Essence scatter? Sublime epiphany? The little 1 - 2 mana pick a card in opponents hand to discard. Dont compare unplayable hearthstone secrets to that.
Cult neophyte and stomper. Thats adorable. Oh actually stomper is in cycle rogue. Because it cycles. Funny.
You’re talking about two cards that are meant to be tech cards and can be played around. You can’t play around someone having 10 mana when you have 4 or someone who has 20 mana when you’re limited to 10. Ice trap also doesn’t remove the card, just returns it to hand and increases the cost to replay. Many mages don’t even bother with counterspell anymore from what I’ve seen. It’s too slow to be worth playing unless it’s discovered and/or mana reduced.
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exactly the only time i see counterspell is with the hunter secret that discover and plays 2 secrets i might see it in a random deck that i destroy but overall its the hunters who use it most now bc its free
How in the world does a Hunter discover a Mage secret? In standard?
Only a Mage can do that, with Hunter’s secret, or any other secret generator (there’s more of them)
theres a hunter spell for 2 thats forge, and when forged u discover 2 secrets and cast them thats how
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Yes, I know, I see it played every day, but if a Hunter uses it, he only gets to choose between his own secrets