I don’t understand why certain people struggle so much with language. It’s like you ignored most of why I said to focus on the wrong part.
Let’s do this again because you have the same problem mand does here.
Understand? I know the current thing is correct and I know why it’s correct. I’m not disputing why it works like it does today.
I’m simply saying that if the text of the evocation wouldn’t work as a battle cry card, it shouldn’t be allowed to work with shudder at all.
The text of the evocation specifies “enemy hero” right on it.
You’re really arguing a sematic point and I’m not doing that.
I’ve repeatedly said the interaction violates the spirit of the card restriction despite following the letter of the rule.
It’s like saying you’re not allowed to speed, but if you go 100mph in reverse it won’t count. You’re still speeding in practice and you’re 100% smashing face for all intents and purposes with the battlecry… just with an extra step.
I don’t know how this is any different than what we are already arguing.
I’m arguing why it works.
You’re arguing why it shouldn’t work.
Am I wrong in this assessment?
So let’s clear this up
I’m arguing why it works. Not if it should work intentionally.
You’re arguing why it shouldn’t work, but your “shouldn’t work” isn’t clear on whether you mean it shouldn’t work as in it’s a bug or it shouldn’t work because it doesn’t make sense because no damage should EVER happen. ?
I’m not arguing about whether it makes sense. I’m arguing purely on the fact that this isn’t a bug and is intended.
If you agree with all of the above, then let me know.
THEN we can argue on whether or not it should work based on “it’s not a bug but it shouldn’t EVER do damage”
Does that sound reasonable?
To make it easier to understand what I’m saying and my stance:
-It’s not a bug. It’s intended.
-The reason it works currently makes sense. It’s designed to do that.
-But I don’t think it should work because I don’t think Shudderblock should allow any damage at all.
I believe you agree with me on all 3 points, but the way you were arguing before makes it sound like you are arguing that it’s a bug and the reason it works doesn’t make sense.
If yogg throws a fireball in a random direction and it hits face, well, praise yogg. Yogg’s spells and targets are random. You can’t really make it do anything specific. I don’t mind this at all.
The elemental evocation that has card text telling everyone exactly what it will do might as well be a battlecry to do face damage because it’s functionally no different, and that’s where I think the line needs to be.
For me you shouldn’t be able to intentionally direct the damage to the face (even through an extra step), and that’s exactly what this is doing.
Again, I don’t see where you would ever get that from my replies.
Ok so let’s talk about this interaction. You think Yogg is ok because it’s random, but Kalimos isn’t because it’s chosen.
However, if you Shudderwock(not Shudderblock) both of these, they are exactly the same and Kalimos selects the Evocations randomly. So at their core, they are the same about how they can go face and deal damage. The only different with Shudderblock Yogg is Yogg can go face and Kalimos allows you the selection. For the same reason Yogg can go face, you should allow Kalimos. I don’t think Kalimos gets special treatment here for this exact reason.
For the same reason a Shudderblock allows Rommath to go face. If Yogg is allowed and Rommath is allowed, not allowing Kalimos is just asking for special treatment when they all 3 act the same way - the minion is casting a spell and not the player.
So I’m guessing you are against Rommath interaction, right?
I get what you’re saying, I just find it strange that you would take the position that Shudderblock CAN allow the next battlecry to deal damage via a Yogg, but somehow it’s not ok for Kalimos.
It’s like a very hypocritical stance.
That’s why I said before it should be immune to all damage. Yogg. Rommath. And Kalimos. That’s how I think it should be, but that’s me. Wanting Yogg to be ok but Kalimos not be ok seems like a very weird take like special pleading.
I haven’t been able to find where they’ve said that. I’ve been looking. If it is changed, I’d be ok with it.
I see murmurings on Reddit that Hat said it, so I guess it’s so.
I’m going to go ahead and guess that it’s because there is an interaction in the mini-set coming that they don’t like, because the combo itself is extremely weak compared to all the other stuff out there. Weird combo to nerf.
Ok so I found the Reddit post from the devs. Here’s what it says:
From ClayByte: The design team has decided that this interaction specifically feels awkward. When the miniset comes out, Kalimos will no longer be able to deal damage to the enemy hero when tripled with Shudderblock.
To be clear, any other card that casts a spell with their battlecry will not be changed. Kalimos in particular doesn’t feel like he’s “casting a spell” with his battlecry, like how Yogg-Saron does. So, after 31.4, Kalimos will be changed to deal that damage himself, rather than relying on spells to do the damage.
Thanks for the feedback everyone!
So the “awkward”-ness of it is why it gets changed. Sure, I can concede to the point it’s awkward (if it wasn’t, we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place) but I find it also awkward that Yogg and Rommath and other minion spell casting stuff works as well. I don’t think any of them should work.
So, um, it’s exactly what I said… It’s not the same as yogg because this feels like a battlecry in functionality, because you’re intentionally picking where the damage is going to go and there’s no random at all.
I am not going to argue that one way or the other, just that you 100% knew what would happen when you used shudderblock and Kalimos and you don’t with the other two. It’s literally going around the card text of shudderblock to have it work like it currently does with Kalimos.
Correct, but it’s more about Rommath for me. Rommath you are technically picking since you set your deck up and Rommath casts the spells. So you can go face damage there. Rommath casts. Kalimos casts. Yogg casts but it’s random. I don’t think it should damage from any of them, but I understand why it does. Just seems a bit strange to single out Kalimos, but it is what it is and it’s confusing enough for them to make a change.
But you do know 100% with Rommath and with other spell casting minions. For example, minions that are taught spells with the school teacher. You know where those are going and yet they work. They shouldn’t work if Kalimos isn’t allowed to work is my entire point.
When you started the game, did you know what spells Rommath would cast? You have to discover spells for him to work is my understanding, and as such you can have varied results?
You know exactly how Kalimos will work with shudderblock when designing your deck - it will hit face for 18 damage every time.
I guess that is to say you can’t build a reliable otk around Rommath or Yogg in the same way you can around Kalimos.
? You can. Yes. You put the spell in your ETC. This is how Rommath combos work in Wild with infinite Rommaths. They put the illusion spell in to get infinite copies.
Shudderblock also works with Jace from DH. So literally every spell you put in your deck, Jace recasts all of them 3 times going face for all of them and dealing damage.
School Teacher gives nagaling a damage spell. Go face for it.
All of these battlecry cast a spell minions are allowed. But Kalimos is now the exception. This makes me wonder if they are functionally changing what Kalimos will say or how his casting works. So things that used to not work with Rommath might now work with Kalimos because they might be functionally different.
You remind me of the infinite Velens fiasco. Yes you can “lawyer” your way out and find a technical explanation that the Devs intended for those interactions,
but it’s unlikely they wrote “you can’t damage the Hero dude” and had in their mind at the same time “but MASSIVE DAMAGE IF DONE BY INVOCATIONS!”.
This is my gripe with the change. They are introducing an inconsistency 'cos reasons. No, the rules shouldnt bend like that outside of extreme circumstances, and 18 damage to face in this day and age is not anywhere near close to an extreme circumstance IMO.