The text in shaman legendary says “Your next battlecry triggers 3 times, but the opponent don’t take damage”, but even with that text the elemental legendary give damage x3 times 6 damage, after the dragon reduced the total life to 15.
The text should be instead, your next battlecry trigger 3 times, the opponent is immune in that turn.
Neither. Its a comprehension failure on your behalf. Words have meanings.
That’s not what it says.
It says you can’t damage the enemy hero.
It practice, it means you can’t target or play anything that says it attacks the hero.
Damage that’s random enemy targets can still hit the hero. I assume you’re talking about tainted remnant, which damages random enemies.
He’s talking about Kalimos, but he’s not understanding that Kalimos is not doing the damage, it’s the Elemental Evocation that is doing the damage.
The Battlecry on Kalimos isn’t doing any damage, it’s summoning an Evocation to cast.
It’s fairly easy to confuse, but once you understand it then it should make sense.
Shudderblock prevents battlecries from directly dealing damage.
If the battlecry deals 6 damage, it will deal 0 damage to face.
If a battlecry casts a spell that deals 6 damage, that will hit face for 6 damage, as the battlecry was casting a spell, not dealing damage.
Kalimos, the elemental in question has a battlecry to cast an elemental invocation, which are effectively spells, so shudderblock doesn’t block it.
I’m not sold on spells working with it, I think it’s just a bug with Kalimos. Because Caress Cabaret Star also casts Fireball with her Battlecry and it doesn’t work with Shudder despite being the same as Kalimos casting Fireball. School Teacher in Wild doesn’t work with it either despite teaching the Nagaling a spell
Which is probably why they have specifically said they are removing the interaction with Kalimos next patch.
why did you make a thread with a made up text for the card
IF the evocation says “do six damage to the enemy hero” then it’s really not in keeping with the card text, imo. Not disputing how it works, more wondering if that’s really how it should work.
So if you played Tainted Remnant to an otherwise empty board, it wouldn’t do anything? It wouldn’t deal damage “randomly” to the only available target?
And that makes sense because it seems like it totally circumvents the spirit of the restriction.
Yeah, it’s not spells, it’s more that Kalimos is doing something else entirely. He’s giving access to an Evocation. Kalimos isn’t casting the spell, he’s summoning something different. The Evocation can be healing or summoning as well. It’s not a spell because the Evocation doesn’t benefit from spell damage.
It’s not a bug, and was confirmed intended.
For example, if a battlecry summons minions that then attack the enemy hero, that counts as well because the battlecry isn’t dealing the damage, the minions are.
This is why Shudderblock also works with Gronx.
And why it worked with tendrils casting sunset volley.
this one works too!
Should the spells cast by ye olde Yogg-Saron also not be able to damage face if Shudderblock was played first?
What’s the difference between a Kalimos evocation and a Yogg Fireball?
What if Yogg plays Supernova? Should those spells, played on later turns, not follow the “spirit of the restriction” ?
Cards need to do what they say. Nothing more, nothing less. Attempting to have a “read between the lines” mentality will lead to dozens of individual exceptions that need to be added by hand.
Do you get to pick which spell yogg casts? No, it’s random.
You’re picking an evocation that you know only hits face, and that doesn’t seem to be in keeping with the spirit of the restriction.
Can you tell yogg to cast fireball? Because you’re certainly telling Kalimos which spell to cast and that spell says right on it that it smashes faces… which isn’t supposed to work with the other card.
You’re not arguing my point, you’re arguing for why it works like it does.
And? Making the game work right is their job.
If you have a card that says you can’t target heroes with a battle cry and then you can literally, intentionally, and directly target only heroes with the battlecry, that seems pretty wrong.
So the issue is settled despite what you think, Mand, blizzard agrees that this is a bridge too far.
You’re not targeting the enemy hero though. At no point is a target coming up. Similar to how Shadow Word Ruin doesn’t target a minion. There is no actual target animation coming up.
Final Form Astalor doesn’t target so Shudderblock should work with that to deal 42 face on an empty board at 10 mana right? and Denatrius too.
The armchair programmer in me suspects that when something (be it a minion or your face) is hit, the damage is then calculated.
What shudder does is that if “the battlecry” hits your face, set the damage dealt to zero. If it hits other things this doesn’t happen so the damage happens as normal.
So like asta or skarr will still hit minions, but face will take zero damage.
But the in cases where the battlecry casts/summons something else, and that something else hits your face, the game doesn’t see the shudder effect, since shudder only applies to “the battlecry”, not the thing that the battlecry generates.
A similar thing I just thought of is like… wands in Final Fantasy (and possibly other RPGs). I forgot which one, but in some FF games you can equip wands and use those to cast spells. The character holding the wand isn’t doing the casting, but the wand is, and sometimes that lets the wand bypass certain rules that would make “the character” unable to cast spells.
But they won’t work with Shudderblock because Astalor and Denathrius battlecry are doing the damage directly from their battlecry. Essentially, if the battlecry says “deal damage” in the battlecry, it’s negated.
The card text has a target on it, Schyla. You can’t play a card with the same battlecry text as the evocation, so it’s pretty sus that you can use the evocation.
Well if that’s the standard you’re going to use, then the text of the evocation that says “deal damage” should be negated too.
No, that’s not what target means in Hearthstone. Nowhere on the card text does it say target. Target is a specific word meaning you move your mouse cursor over it and select it. You absolutely do not do that with Kalimos.
The battlecry of Kalimos doesn’t deal damage though. To further prove the point that the battlecry doesn’t deal damage, select an Evocation that summons 2/3 taunts and tell me where the battlecry damage is.
That’s how that works.
Kronx Devastation works the same way.
Which is also why it still works if the enemy hero is Elusive. And so does Mind Blast.