LOL, you aren’t even bringing statistics into this, probably because you don’t understand stats to begin with.
A pro is not losing 50% of your games due to a lucky discover or Yogg, or else you wouldn’t see consistent faces in Master’s Tour year after year. What you stated is objectively and provably false if you watch any Masters’ Tour; you will see that most of the time that someone gets a “lucky” random effect, 1 person was so far ahead that it had no meaningful impact on the outcome of the match. In MTG, you will literally lose most of your games because you cannot play a card because of too much or too little mana. Top decking is nowhere near as impactful in HS than MTG, because HS is more consistent due to having 30 cards and not relying on drawing mana.
The pitfalls in randomness are literally not comparable, unless you don’t understand statistics and are speaking from ignorance.
I can’t even have a discussion because you are not bringing anything substantial to the conservation. You clearly don’t understand statistics. The fact that MTG Arena is doing worse than HS, YGO Master Duels, and the new Pokemon digital card game should be proof that MTG is a terrible game to play that only hardcore addicts can stomach. The fact that WOTC invested millions yet failed to create an ESPORTs should be proof that MTG is terrible to spectate. Yet for some reason you are going against statistics, reality, and common sense.
I dont have any statistics but the amount of times where I would be facing a pivotal turn… and I drew a land and had to pass was staggering.
No other card game has forced me to pass so many turns due to having nothing playable due to mana issues that could easily be solved by either having a hearthstone style mana system or just having land and other cards be in separate draw piles.
Well, cards aren’t in a vacuum. If you have nothing to ramp into… Though, the ramp was still the problem there. You literally needed a nerf on the mana of the card it was ramping into. So, yeah, your point doesn’t hold up. Doomkin was allowing it early. =\
Exactly. The critical flaw about MTG is the mana system hence why the newcomers won’t touch this game and would rather play HS, YGO, Legends of Runeterra, or Pokemon. All of these games got rid of that mana system, or in the case of Pokemon, there is so much draw and tutor effects that mana isn’t as much of a problem.
There were several other card games that directly tied to copy MTG’s mana system, and they all flopped hard because noone likes stagnant games due to mana problems.
mm-hm, but in warlock, you had to draw it by turn 6, and you were still very vulnerable to burn/aggro beforehand (I guarentee if we had figured out small spell mage before Wheel Lock got nerfed, deck would not have been T1)
Card was balanced there. In the absence of other ramp.
This is a valid point I don’t think I see enough people here bring up. There’s a reason decks like Excavate Rogue are only really played in high Legend–because actually consistent good play is very rare and does actually beat “RNG” wins.
No, it is because trainers and items don’t have a cost.
No, it is because they lack patience. And Yugioh is nothing like any of them. It is a different breed of player. Don’t lump us together.
But the card it ramped into needed to be nerfed, essentially nerfing Doomkin in Warlock. Get it? They basically nerfed Doomkin in Warlock.
No, people bring this up all the time. It doesn’t change that they won because of RNG. A pro would win anyhow, but the fact that RNG did it is the problem.
literally not how it works. Lets apply this logic to another nerf that happened to prove you incorrect.
“Reno Jackson needed to be nerfed, essentially nerfing [Doctor Holliday] in [Shaman]. Get it? They basically nerfed [Doctor Holliday] by nerfing [Reno Jackson]”
circular reasoning. My opinion of your ability to rationalize is quickly dwindling friend.
I mean just because both players end up getting ‘nongames’ because of mana issues doesn’t exactly say to me that its a good system.
I mean this is a systemic issue that goes for even low cost mono red decks but is amplified by decks that try to play dual color. At least to me its not fun having your game decided because you cant play your cards. Its a lot like doomkin trapping you at 3 mana while your opponent has 10.
As an aside the sheer cost of getting all those dual colored lands every expansion is pretty high too and another reason not to like the mana system, which is a shame because I think the multi-colored system of magic is actually one of the most fun things about it — and a lot similar to what hearthstone is now doing with the tourist feature.
Its pretty clear that you enjoy magic and all the more power too you but I just think there are a lot of problems with MTGA that prevent it from being as good a game as it can be, just as there are a lot of problems with hearthstone.
Losing because you need to play mana to play cards and you didn’t draw any is just as random as losing because yogg summoned a full board or Ragnaros. The difference is that you are going to lose far more games in MTG, because statistically mana screw/swamp is more common than getting a discover that won you the game.
One of the reasons why I like HS is that the randomness is up-front, so you can play around them. If the game is close, and it didn’t matter if you discovered something good or topdecked something good. Actally, topdecking isn’t even that much of a problem since the power level of individual cards are more of less equal in HS, as opposed to MTG in which the developers literally admitted to releasing broken cards in standard in order to sell standard sets to people who play degenerate eternal formats.
I can’t post links, but google “PLAY DESIGN LESSONS LEARNED” to read this shameless article from November 18, 2019.
No seriously, you should read this article to understand the insanity of MTG. The developers literally admitted that they wanted to raise the power level of standard just to make a buck. They didn’t even have the decency to hide their greed from the fans like Blizzard does. Till this day, MTG’s standard’s power level has continued to skyrocket, which is why Arena lost nearly all of its playerbase and WOTC is struggling financially.
No, but that is your opinion. Would you rather have Magic’s system, or be unable to play on your opponent’s turn? In either case, HS has less agency, which you refuse to accept.
It goes for every deck, if you are trying to be consistent in a best of one.
So, we’re talking about paper now? I’m pretty sure a lot lands carry over, anyhow.
I mostly play HS, but I grew up on Pokemon and Yugioh. Then I transitioned to HS. Magic I played last. I see the full scope, faults, and benefits of all.
No, that’s a complete lie. You choose how much mana you put into a deck, and you only have one RNG factor. Yogg is based on how many spells you drew, then the quality of spells you cast. You understand nothing. Total nonsense.
You’re a complete Zoomer in bed with HS, who doesn’t understand RNG at all. Up front? A card doesn’t say, “Roll a dice-1-3 wins,” it is just a random card. You are speaking complete nonsense to praise HS. Zoomers don’t understand a damn thing, don’t appreciate where anything came from, and just assume what they have is the best version. I hate to sound like an old man, but I was pointing this out as even a kid. I hated my own generation, and you are just so much worse. It’s so stupid how you think.
You just said it yourself: “A pro will would win anyhow”, which means that you acknowledge that randomness has less of an impact in HS. But you can’t tell me that a pro who is stuck on 2 mana on turn 5 can beat a scrub using a netdeck.
Yes, in MTG, a pro will beat a scrub more times than not, but the winrate will be close since most losses are due to mana complications. However, in the same experiment in HS, there will be a profoundly higher difference in winrate between a scrub and pro, because randomness has a lower impact in HS.
A pro would win with the best cards they have. They don’t need to be random. If you pit two pros together with RNG, they can be won on a Coin Flip. We literally saw this in Worlds with Yogg!
We literally saw a losing pro beat a winning pro because of Yogg. A coin flip. The fact that anyone argues this is insane and shows they are completely idiotic. It’s just a fact. If you don’t believe RNG is toxic, you are stupid.
I’ll predict the nonsense you will say and counter with this:
It’s not the same. You are talking about the game play device of drawing a card versus a card basically saying: “Flip a coin. Heads, you win.”
LMFAO, of you course you think this way. You don’t understand what randomness is and you don’t understand statistics, so concepts like card draws being rng is lost on you. Statistics might as well be black magic to you, or fire to a freighted caveman. I understand how you think, because a lot of MTG players have no comprehension of statistics and only play MTG because they invested thousands of dollars over decades.
Just because you fail to accept that MTG is a low-skill, high-variance games doesn’t distract from the reality that MTG is doing very poorly across several metrics despite having a near monopoly on card games for nearly 2 decades. The narrative that MTG is the most competitive card game is provably false which is evident by the failure of MTG ESPORTs, local gaming stores turning their back on MTG sets, and a lack of new players.