Reno, Lone Ranger is getting its cost reduced to 8 as it enters wild, but I want to discuss why this isn’t enough and what further should change.
To illustrate this point let’s compare two cards:
Reno, Lone Ranger:
Cost: 8 mana, require no duplicates.
Effect: Destroy minions, give 5 armor, grant a hero power that does 2 damage.
Twisting Nether:
Cost: 8 mana
Effect: Destroy minions and locations.
Therefore, Twisting Nether as it currently stands is a better card than Reno since it includes locations. More importantly, Reno requires no duplicates in the deck, while Twisting Nether has no such requirement and also destroys locations.
The main issue with Reno in standard was skipping a turn. But now that is removed, Reno should now include removing locations as a 8 mana card to at least match Twisting Nether.
The problem is: Reno has the requirement of no duplicates, and for that requirement, it is a lesser version of Twisting Nether which also destroys locations.
Therefore, it is only fair Reno, Lone Ranger should be buffed to also destroy locations.
I don’t think Twisting Nether is a good comparison. Reno being one sided, and negating Deathreattle and Reborn makes it objectively stronger than Twisting Nether.
However, I do agree Reno is underpowered in wild. I wouldn’t mind him destroying locations. He would keep being unplayable anyways.
Reno does NOT destroy minions, he removes them from the game, which is actually worse than Twisting nether, destroyed minions can be resurrected. Also Reno’s hero power isn’t just deal 2 damage, it has a changing secondary effect. He’s powerful enough at 8 mana as is for wild without the remove everything and limit your opponent board
It isnt op against a battlecry deck maybe, and yes you shouldnt fill your entire board if you think one might be coming. but its just so unfair, no deathrattle or reborn triggered. and their minions stay
Reno is legendary, so you can only have one in every deck. Plus, it comes with the limitation of the deck having no duplicates. Twisting Nether can have two copies in the deck, with no limitations of deck duplicates.
In other words:
Reno exchanges the word ‘destroy’ for ‘remove’ from Twisting Nether, but can only be used once per game, and cannot have any duplicate cards in the deck.
I really feel that not having any duplicate cards and only being able to have a maximum of 1 Reno card in the deck, is still weak compared to Twisting Nether without any limitation. The fact you can only have one copy while Twisting Nether can have 2 copies with no limitation, then Reno should be made to also include locations.
Also, what about cards that transform minions into different ones? Theoretically, they are the same effect. Polymorph, hex, and transform minions into another minion, are conceptually a very similar effect to what Reno does - remove the card from play. But, Reno has massive limitations that can only be played once and limits decks to no duplicates.
Is the ‘remove’ instead of ‘destroy’ worth a deck with no duplicates, and a maximum of 1 copy?
At a conceptual level, all Reno does different from Twisting Nether, is remove instead of destroy, but doesn’t remove locations, and has two limitations. Does having two limitations for a ‘remove’ keyword justify using the card? in Wild: no it doesn’t.
Seem to be missing that Reno only affects your opponent, Twisting Nether hits the whole board. 1 card forces just one player to get set back up, the other forces both. Another note is Reno is a neutral card, Twisting Nether is class specific, not all classes has aoe removal
If Reno was written as: “Destroy all minions on the board. No duplicates in deck.” Do you believe this card would be strong? No.
So, Reno has to be stronger than Twisting Nether in order to justify Reno’s two limitations.
Twisting Nether is used in different situations than Reno. The negative effect of destroying their own minions and locations has very little effect at the top level, given that players won’t play it with a strong board.
There is so much board clear today, so cards that destroy your own board make very little impact because Twisting Nether would only get played when your board is empty or almost empty anyway, which would mean the net value would be similar to playing Reno when used. The scenarios between Reno and Twisting Nether would be different, but the value would be the same.
Again, I don’t think removing the enemy board instead of destroying the enemy board would justify making a deck without duplicates. Sure Reno only removes enemy board, while Twisting Nether destroys everything, but, Twisting Nether would never get played when you have a strong board, so that would never be a possibility in the first place. There are many strong board clears already, and Reno feels like a worse Twisting Nether but replacing ‘destroy’ with ‘remove’ that only affects minions. However, we defined earlier that Reno must be stronger than Twisting Nether to justify the limitations of the card. At the moment, only affecting minions doesn’t make it stronger than Twisting Nether. On that basis, Reno should get buffed.
well you are wrong appearently because everyone and their mom is running a no duplicate reno deck in wild. About half of the matches i get in fact. If so many people run a no duplicate deck for reno, perhaps its a sign he is very OP.
then remove his limitations and also nerf his strength. make it hit your own units as well or simply only destroy enemies. Removing the entire enemy board without any bad effects to yours is too strong.
I never had any problem with any other renos or board clears. but the lone ranger is just disgusting and a very big problem because of how many people use it
We’re not playing the same game then. I would love to play against Reno decks, but you know what decks I see all the time in Wild? Well let me tell you:
Pirate. Priest, DH, Rogue. Every game they win by turn 4 or 5 in 70% of the game until you draw a god hand where you have a chance of fighting back. They just stomp face.
One-shot Astalor Shaman that one shots you turn 6.
Infinite card draw druid that makes you draw cards until you run out then Kil’Jaeden to finish you off.
Pain Warlock that kills you after they get their pain cards turn 8.
Those decks make up 90% of my matches. About 1 in every 10 games, I might see a Reno deck. Today’s wild meta is mostly about rushing the opponent down turn 4 or 6. I really cannot understand how players find Reno a problem when Pirate priest are ending games by turn 4. This game of Hearthstone in Wild is the most unbalanced it has ever been, and somehow Reno is the issue? I don’t get it.
I’ll be honest: even if Blizzard buffed Reno to also make the opponent only be able to play 1 minion like it used to be, that is STILL balanced in this meta. In this meta, you are dead by turn 4, 5, or 6. You never make it to turn 8 to play Reno, and that is assuming you draw him.
When you don’t draw him, you play him very late into the game, and at that point, the game is either over if you’re playing against Pirate deck, Warlock or Shaman deck, which consist of most of the matches in Wild.
So, Reno is only relevant against 10% of my games that go late - against Warrior, Druid, DK. The rest of the decks win the game before Reno is played or becomes relevant. To be honest with you: if Pirate Priest/DH/Rogue are bursting players down on turn 4, and that is not an issue within the meta, then Reno should be significantly buffed because by the time you get to actually play him, 90% of those games are already over with many players having early-game aggro decks.
So, yes, Reno should 100% be buffed in the Wild meta. I am playing in top 1k legend Wild games, and I can tell you I have seen all sorts of crazy decks - and Reno very very rarely gets any play time at all.
I’ll say it again, Wild will never be balanced without adjusting every card, and readjusting cards with every rotation, even then you will always have the anti-titan crowd crying that X titan is still OP
I think Reno is an incredibly strong card. A one-sided board wipe that ‘removes from the game’ is way, way better than a both-sided wipe which just destroys things.
Adjusting already problematic cards is not possible. They just need to ban/hall of fame cards at this point if they care about the health of wild. The card pool will only get bigger thus more unbalanced interactions will pop up eventually.