and the stats you showed factor in gold and bellow is hard to find a plat + demon hunter that does not run it even gold.
Well, just comparing the non-Priestess build to the Priestess build, the non-Priestess build has better matchups against Hunter, Rogue and Warrior; 3 of DHās worst matchups.
If you canāt find a reason to justify cutting Priestess, then let me lay it out in simple terms. Itās a high-cost card that clogs up Outcast, you may never actually get a window to play it before youāre dead, and it might just get removed for cheap before it gets a chance to do anything.
Vicious Syndicate has the data, but if they canāt grasp something as obvious as why youād cut Priestess, then they donāt know the difference between knowledge and wisdom.
And you base that on what?
1 Like
If you are going to persist with the name calling then I am afraid I no longer respond to you. As you said Vs has the data and has said its evident to run priestess because its op. I believe data over insults. Bye bye. Wish you better days in the future you dont just relegate your forum activity to derogatory insult bashing. Im done with you.
Very well, I will edit that out.
And yet you dismiss data that disagrees with your preconceptions? Go on hsreplay, look at the stats for the Priestess and non-Priestess build. The non-Priestess build performs better against Hunter, Rogue and Warrior.
Priestess build: https://hsreplay.net/decks/KeO2f6G2s6OEgb2I3zGJsb/#gameType=RANKED_STANDARD&tab=overview
Non-Priestess build:
https://hsreplay.net/decks/fuaZKhRtkUSXXQ7vKfipqc/#tab=overview
Yeyyyyyy! 3 losses in a row against DH.
The reason?! Priestess of course!!! Its annoying loose games cause of broken cards!!!
Yeah I did. My point was card draw that also reduces the cost of cards has been a thing. Rogues are another example (Heistbaron/Galakrond). Itās always down to what you actually get discounted. Canāt tell you how many times Iāve Skulled into double twin slice. And when you donāt get the right discounts, youāre in bad shape unless you have the greatest Altruis of your life next turn. Skull is a gamble, much like Far Sight. With higher risk and higher reward.
Well faceless requires you to have another minion on board or you having another cheap minion you can play along with it to work, and then you are trading 2 cards into 1. Donāt think metamorphosis is more of a issue, itās 7 mana deal 10 over 2 turns without a 6/7 body like Priestess. The last time I looked the top highest wr dh deck cut metamorphosis to play spectral instead while keeping 2 priestess.
I call complete bull sh*t on that. Ones without PoF I win every time against on my hunter. Those stats are not taking into account bad decks bad players and bad card draws. In-fact I watched a lot of hunters just auto coincide soon as they see the card. Just saw one do it again 1 min ago.
Cant refute this. Nice one.
2 Likes
Its demon hunter. Losing the early game is a near guarantee.
Highmane wasnt autowin because hunter hero power was deal 2 damage and synergy with it wasnt over the top so ppl actually had boards back in those days to deal with highmane. Getting a board vs demon hunter is quite a task to deal with 7 health minion on turn 7 and forget it on turn 5.
Another difference is you can respond with minions on your turn to try and kill highmane. Not so with priestess. Those minions are now likely dead or hurt enough DH finishes them off so you now need a spell that deals 7 or you are dead. Or the DH even plays priestess 2 and its insta GG.
Thereās another word for āspell that deals 7ā. Itās called hard removal, and people have ran it against things like turn 3 12/12 van cleefs, mountain giants, sea giant (or even frostwolf warlord when odd pally was a thing) in a zoo deck, that one libram pally managing to cast libram of hope, etc.
In a typical DH deck, they donāt run any other minions that are worth single target removal as much as priestess (the class has other big minions, but your typical netdeck tempo DH donāt run them), so it makes sense to save your hard removals just for those priestesses.
Some classes can obviously do this better than others, but thatās kinda how the meta/the game as a whole works. You are always welcome to join me in petitioning for buffs to other classes so itās easier for everyone to get those removals (I say buff pallies first, I think theyāre the class you can buff with the lowest risk of overbuff or breaking the meta)
1 Like
Have you missed difference of draw 1 card for 3 mana and reduce cost by 3 and draw 3 cards for 6 mana and reduce the cost by 3x3?
Even without the reduction its pretty solid card draw. Cost reduction makes it bloody awesome. Especially when you can run 2 copies.
Draw 3 for 6 is not really that solid. Especially for tempo DH. If thatās all it was IMO no DH would play it. Druids are drawing 3 for 2 mana right now. Warlocks same for 2-4. Warriors are drawing even more for 2 mana. Nourish, outside of quest, is damn near unplayable and has been since it was nerfed.
You need the reduction so you can turn it into big tempo swings. But as I said, itās a gamble, just like Far Sight. You play FS possibly hoping you hit the one thing you needed this turn like a board clear or lethal or tempo. Skull is basically the same thing just bigger. I donāt play Skull every game because the risk is too high sometimes. Same with Far Sight. Skull is far more rewarding but far more risky.
1 Like
Why every card in DH list should be focused on single archetype?
And why are you still comparing it to Far Sight? It has nothing in common.
Draw 1 card for 3 with reduction of 3 isnt really tempo swing and is mostly used in slower decks with higher cost cards.
Skill of Guldan is totaly busted card draw - Nourish on steroids. And calling it risky? If it was the case no DH deck with tons of 0-2 cards would even include it. And its auto-include in every DH deck.
Far sight and Skill of Guldan are completely different cards in how they affect the gameplay. I bet if Far Sight would be changed to Skull, every shaman deck would run it. Same as if Skull would be changed to Far Sight - how many decks would run it?
You are comparing cards that cannot be compared at all.
Youāre focused on the over all power of the cards. Iām focused on the effects and how both are a gamble when you play them.
Skull IS risky because you donāt know what youāre going to get and how that will fit the rest of your turn. If you pay 6 mana and do absolutely nothing, youāre going to have a bad time.
To say nothing of what it does to your other outcast cards you also want to play (which is most DH decks. Not just Tempo). It takes set up to get skull in the right place (usually resulting in sub par plays to get it to position) and then it needs to hit the right cards.
You act like iām comparing skull to shieldbearer or something. Both FS and Skull are draw cards with reduce effects that can result in crazy high rolls and total whiffs. Sounds pretty similar to me. Oneās just higher risk and higher reward. The otherās more flexible.
Skull isnāt totally busted. Itās not something you always jam on 6 because you just win the game after. Its a good card, because its in a good class that had all its cards designed around the same time. It works out quite often, but so does Far sight in the right deck.
4 Likes
Not just that, every card that does chip damage to the face needs to be changed to āenemy minionā.
Which is exactly why all āviableā competitive decks in this meta have strong early game tempo tools (Enrage Warrior, Face/Dragon Hunter, Rogue), or good way to annihilate tempo advantage with good AoE and comeback potential (Priest).
With those decks ālosing the early gameā is not ānear guaranteedā.
Actually, fun fact: if you look at drawn winrates (and even at played winrates), Skull of Gulādan is consistently the worst or close to worst card in the deck.
I doubt people cut it because being able to refill is an important component in tempo decks, still seems the ideal line of play is āavoid playing Skull of Gulādan if you canā.
3 Likes
You are still talking about Skull from Aggro DH point of view where on turn 6 you basically looking for closing the game.
I am talking about comparison of these cards as whole. DH has cards for control-ish or BIG decks, depend on other expansion.
Aggro shaman wouldnt run Far Sight in a deck because the main difference is this one:
Even when some people are talking about how bad the Skull is, every DH deck still uses it - hell even current overlord - Agrro DH. Because it allows you to refill a hand. Far sight does not. And that the main difference.
Would it be even more powerful if DH would get some slower deck? Like midrange, control, combo or something like that? I guess so. Because even when its effect is tied to outcast and its worse to do with high mana cost cards, slow decks arent that forced to tempo and ability to hit high cost cards would be great in a deck with higher cost cards.
Thats what I was talking about - card draw is the best effect in a game and while Far Sight doesnt suit aggro shaman very well, Skull does suit aggro deck because it allows you to refill a hand with potential of burst turns.
Same as Divine Favor - one of the best card draws with difference it cannot be used in slow decks like control becuase it would be usually dead card or underperforming by drawing like 1 card.
Silencing POF does nothing cause it still hits hard next turn for normal high card dmg. It need to be not able to attack and have less health PERIOD. Most people just concede soon as that card is out these days. Make it a legendary. Crap its better than most legendary even in wild!
Iām talking about the cards as a whole as well. Skull is more popular.
DH, however, has less options than any other class, by a substantial amount, so theyāre naturally gonna have a lot more similar cards between decks. If Skull were to get made into a classic card, and thus stick around potentially forever, I doubt it would remain a staple in every DH deck because its just not right for everyone.