Permanent effects are what I think is wrong

Multiplayer Discussion
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I feel like this game made a mistake when they printed the words:
For the rest of the game.

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2

We shall refer to Mallenroh as “Mage Dude”
For the rest of this thread

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3

Just on this thread? That seems a little stingy:)

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Mage Dude does have a point tho. But not all “for the rest of the game” are as powerful as the others. I would be fine with keeping the vast majority of them as they don’t impact the game greatly. First thing coming to mind is the paladin’s buffs to silverhands. Sure its a + but not that much. Priests 0cost heropower. Amazing only if you’re running Raza. Rogues minions being 5/5 are scary for sure, but you can play around it with control.

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5

While I understand Mage Dude’s concerns…

When I 1st saw the new Shadow Priest card, I was excited (even tho I rarely play SP)

I knew the only was Shadow Priest was gonna work was if the card was for the rest of the game.

Just like Quests, if you can’t play them turn 1, they’re pointless.

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You’ve been reading my posts I see. lol

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No, but I do think permanent effects are a bridge too far.

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Yeah, well, you know it’s gonna be the same old story with Team5.

Community: “Quest rewards are broken, please adjust them”
Team 5: “Yeah, well, deal with it”
Community: “Please, it’s a circus of powercreep insanity”
Team 5: “Sigh, fiiiiine. nerfs something else Happy now?”
Community: “But that’s not…”
Team 5: “WAIT FOR THE META TO SETTLE, jeez. Can’t make anyone happy these days”

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It’s not the permanent effects as much as it is the lack of countering them. If there was a way to interact with or tech against them it wouldn’t be a problem.

In MTG those effects are able to be removed or altered by other players. Hearthstone doesn’t have that.

For example, For the rest of the game you have no maximum handsize, and then someone else later plays “Set each players maximum handsize to 2”

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Just Sharing…
If you look deeper, even w/o the For the rest of the game, you will still find many more mistakes, one followed by another.

My suspect is that the game caters to too wide an audience, and attempt to satisfy them all but does not have the resources to support it. (lack of specific playmode)

BG is deem to be more successful than the constructed mode, with it catering a a specific group.
Classic I believe does that too.
Arena as well.
And we see the least complains among all these modes.

Adding more game modes is not possible as seen how they are managing both standard and wild.

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Wonder if we can get a minion that has like, -1 or -2 to Spell Power (for all spells). Bonus points if it’s Untargetable.

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I disagree with mage dude here.
I don’t think “for the rest of the game” is in itself a problem.
As the examole was brought up, the Paladin Spell giving your dudes +1 Attack was no problem. Neither was Justicar Trueheart or most of the death Knights. Jaraxxus hasn’t been a problem for a while now and he even got buffed with the Core Set.
Wildfire isn’t a problem at all.

Such effects are very dangerous though, as a powerfull rest-of-game-effect can just take over the whole game. Therefore they have to be sharply watched on the balance, by either making them very slow to bring the value (Warrior-Quest right now (in standard), Jaraxxus, Wildfire) or so hard to achieve, that a gameending effect seems fair (Priest-Quest (It’s basicly for the rest of the game you win).

Also to the point of interactibility that Schyla brought up: I don’t think rest-of-game-effects should be endable. They should just (a) be balanced around that and (b) deliver the effect interactable (this is the main point).
This means an effect like Neeru Fireblade, Juggernaut or Jaraxxus are good, as they play through the board. Even Shaman somewhat is fine here, as currently Quest shaman rarely wins by just burning you for 20. (This might start to happen and I would definatly want to see it adjusted then.) However Warlock and Mage quess transfer their rest of game effects directly from the void into face damage (and a game winning amount at that) and this, I think, is the problem these Quests (and also the hunter one) have, as they finish their quests and your only option to fight them is to kill them faster.

Thanks for reading this wall of text by the way.

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13

You would not like shadowverse. there are so many rest of the game effects in there,

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14

sound like you want this game to became next yu-gi-oh !!
i don’t mind going that route.

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I think the problem occurs when the permanent effects are that strong that puts the whole game in their favour and offers such a great advantage that a normal deck(without a permanent effect) can’t reach it.
Or better, such effects (if are THAT strong) should require alot of work to get them.
Let’s look at Baku and Genn. Hero power “Summon 2 1/1’s” is not amazing unless it literally comes at the start of the game. If Baku was something like “It activates in turn 5”, it wouldn’t of been that problematic.
I think those questlines were fine if they could be finished only around turn 9-10. Turn 5 is just way too early for such strong effects. Now I would much rather make then something like “Battlecry: This turn…” but that’s just me because I hate permanent effects in general.

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Oh, so you’re actually asking for a nerf (well, un-buff) to wildfire?

When even our resident Mage Dude is asking for mage nerfs, man…

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I think permanent effects have destroyed this game.
Like I said elsewhere; nerfing Warlock made no difference but in what class is
most broken.
Other Quests have taken it’s place is all.
The product is power crept garbage now.
I have never wanted to play less since the game began.
I hope Team 5’s leadership gets replaced.

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Druid main here to report in, and give my thoughts on it.

I don’t see some “rest of the game” effect bad, as some are pretty neutral, but other stuff is ‘over-reaching’

I’ll give example of a few cards I think are “fine” as rest of the game effects.

the 1st is buff, going to Whisper of the Old God, with C’thun. This was a build up card, for rest of the game C’thun kept those buff even if he didn’t exist in the deck, I am 100% fine with this as it need a build up.

Frost Lich Jaina Giving all Elements (even silenced) Lifesteal for the rest of the game. While it was annoying, It was cool.

Goru the Mightree being a other it’s 7 mana card and needed treant stuff to be good and was only a +1/+1 which was also immune to silences.

Awaken the Makers/Amara, Warden of Hope Changed the player and heal them to 40 lifepoints. While it was annoying as hell to do so much damage, these days there so much damage this is kinda fair in wild now.

Valdris Felgorge is an other good example of rest of the game card in my opinion, it changes warlock hand size to 12 I just hated the draw, but at least the body was weak as an 4/4.

There a few other cards I could list but these are a few example of decent card in my opinion. So I wouldn’t say it was bad card thing to make, but some on-going stuff is really insane and powerful, such as Pally making Perma divine Shield x+ attack silver hands for the rest of the game, turning lack to 4/4’s and don’t forget The Caverns Below/Crystal Core where all minions were 5/5’s (or 4/4’s when nerfed).

Some cards are hit or misses, that’s for sure, but I feel there need be a fineline on card power for rest of the game to be on weak bodies, or a deck that is VERY niche, or causes you to pass your turn to a minor rest of the game.

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19

I don’t see how you keep and endorse some permanent effects but not others.
The cries of “bias” “favoritism” “discrimination” etc. would drown social media.
I think Team 5 has flatly gone too far.
This game has less to do with skill then ever before.

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You can’t really remove permanent effects in MTG either unless you have something that overrides what it does, which is super rare. If Big Teferi activates his ultimate you’re pretty much locked out of the game. In fact a lot of Planeswalker ultimate abilities are more or less the same power level as these quests; if they manage to activate them then they’re going to win in a turn or so (or in the case of Teferi they’ll win in 50 turns unless you concede because you’ll never get to do anything).

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