No healthy decks left in standard

Ive played this game for quite some time, and in nearly every meta i could build a homebrew that was able to compete with all t1 decks in any meta. Until now.

The design space is so limited there are literally only a handful of decks that can maintain 50 percent winrate and they all rely on one broken mechanic or another.

Ive tried for the past few days to climb out of d5 with anything but the top decks and its impossible. It doesnt matter how many misplays my opponents make, how many correct reads i make or outs i find, if im not playing a broken deck i got no chance.

The coming exp looks to be exacerbating the issue. I think this game is simply gone. Im going to be signing in far less often. Adios.

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You can always play True Hearthstone

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I mean you can definitely climb out of D5, it just means youā€™re going to have to play some meta decks if you canā€™t homebrew something that plays well against stuff youā€™re seeing on ladder and thereā€™s not a lot of viable tier 2 stuff going on right now (although there are some).

Played with one of my friends yesterday who is top 1500 legend (both legend, heā€™s a bit higher since heā€™s on that Chinese grind and Iā€™m just chilling), but we went 3-2 (in his favor) with him using tier 1 decks and with me using elemental shaman, Earthen paladin, and plague DK. Surprisingly it was plague DK that lost me the last game because he somehow avoided drawing plagues all game with 1 health remaining but it is what it is. Should have won with better luck, didnā€™t, thatā€™s how it goes in the climb too.

My point being that even some strong tier 2 and homebrew decks are viable BUT I think thereā€™s kind of a short list. Thereā€™s a lot of decks that I think are pretty cool right now that just have too much variance to climb OR canā€™t close games in simplified game states. There are symptoms of mismanagement of tempo and deck construction. Unfortunately, there are strong cards in a vacuum that just donā€™t have spots in the current meta and if your decks are running these kinds of cards then itā€™s a problem for climbing. SOMETIMES you can afford to tech in 1-3 depending on the deck list and what youā€™re playing, but people really underestimate how important every slot in a decklist is and how far behind you can get from drawing an unusable card on even just one turn. You need to evaluate if youā€™re running cards that are dead draws. I understand that there are some cards you just NEED to play but if youā€™re going to play those cards it means you need to make compromises somewhere and you need to adjust more than just the slot that card takes up since your deck is a system of cards working in tandem with each other. And sometimes tech choices can actually be the things that elevate your win-rate, but that is entirely ladder dependent and if you can make those adjustments in your decklist as you see trends happening game-to-game.

Most decks if built properly can survive early game unless youā€™re playing against buff paladin in which case good luck (probably the best deck right now IMO), but you need to really evaluate what cards youā€™re using and really thinking about what your decks do on every turn of the game and how you build around that. Some decks do specific things by turn 4, turn 5, some decks aim to stabilize through the midgame to win in a stretched out late game and if youā€™re not playing for your decksā€™ win-con itā€™s going to seem like anything thatā€™s not tier 1 is so clearly worse. You also need to consider if your deck can clear certain expected board states, If it canā€™t then you need to establish your own board state that overwhelms your opponent to the point where they need to disrupt the progression of their own wincon to contest whatever youā€™re doing. THIS is what it means to be a tempo deck, itā€™s not so short-sighted as just playing cards on curve. This also means that you need to evaluate things like when you lose tempo one turn and credit it to another turn, when you are willing to lose life (life is only a resource to a degree), when you should trade versus pushing damage, etc.

Onto that last point, I had a game recently where I needed to decide playing Scarr or Kalimos on turn 7. The choices were do I clear his board with Kalimos and lose the 6 damage but continue building my Scarr for a later turn or do I Scarr now, try to bank on dealing 7 damage next turn, play minions and save Kalimos for the 6 damage burn. If I use Kalimos to clear the board I potentially canā€™t end the game if he gets big lifesteal and I need to start pushing damage, so I used Scarr to deal 7 damage instead of waiting for a turn 14 Scarr dealing 14.

Anyway, I won that game within the next 2 turns because I had to think about how he could defend himself while I am looking for obvious lethal. Since I was putting down threats he needed to address (plague DK) he couldnā€™t establish his own wincon and I took it. If I played Kalimos on turn 7 I probably would have lost because there was a countdown on Azerite Rat + Reska.

Basically, start evaluating your plays, think about what your deck needs to do turn-to-turn, think about general strategies to play against common board states and if you can transition from trading to looking for lethal and if the cards youā€™re using are complimentary to actually winning. You can definitely play home brew right now (it is weaker for generally climbing), but you REALLY need to be considerate of how to actually win and what cards are going to help you get there.

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Dunno, I was able to get to legend in EU with Zarimi priest which is ā€œnot existentā€ as per last VS report. Two winstreaks with 7 and 9 games allowed me to get to 2200 position which is not something amazing but still is far from legend-20k so you donā€™t really have to stick to T1 decks.

Iā€™d say that most T1 decks are working best during the late game so you may want to avoid that by rushing them down early with any aggro deck that works with current removals.

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To me theres 4 types of decks right now

Aggro (which has to kill by turn 5 or gets overwhelmed by board clears)
OTK
Boomboss warrior (the only viable ā€˜slowā€™ deck thanks to bomboss being so overpowered compared to the options of other class slow decks)
Overwhelming mana cheat (see rogue/druid/shaman)

Unfortunately with the game how it is now its pretty hard to be able to kill by turn 5 anymore with an aggro deckā€¦ ā€˜pain warlock/token paladinā€™ being the best current option
OTK is all but been eradicatedā€¦ handbuff paladin with leeroy being the main remaining option (suppose sonya rogue can pivot to this if necessary)

Which leaves bomboss / mana cheat as the only real viable strategies and such a very limited amount of ways to perform that strategy (pretty much just warrior / excavate(sonya) rogue / marin druid / nostalgia shaman)

Its just a really stale design space right now. They printed way too many early board clears and gave a few classes way to many ways to mana cheat stuff that other classes cant hope to respond to (and what do you know the expansion is giving those same classes more tools to do so).

They need to either learn to take out offending cards (bomboss) or give every class the same access to mana cheating / remove defensive options for mana cheating decks to let aggro decks breathe again or we will continue to see hearthstone degenerate into the same few classes using the same few deck strategies while every other strategy is crowded out.

I got stuck in DV with Nature shaman for days, then I swapped to sludgelock, put Unkilliax, Dorian and Marin in it, and cruised with 25-5 into top 800 with it (got only 10 stars this month cuz I have no time for play anymore). Iā€™m only missing Yogg, cuz I donā€™t have him on NA xD

Itā€™s not exactly homebrewn, and it does speak into favor of limited design space, but itā€™s creative xD

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Just wanted to mention sludgelock and here you go.

Good example of a deck that has been sitting in shadow after the nerfs but still works. Sometimes people just read patch notes like if deck must to go away while it still is fine and just less opressive. At times it feels like D5 people are too much tied to tier lists and as result are going in circles stealing wins from each other. :slight_smile:

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Hey yellow i have taken tbis homebrew to d1 on NA so far and a diff version to legend on EU. I think you mifht like it. Its kinda fun when i manage to stealth the one cost mini

Custom Rogue

Class: Rogue

Format: Standard

Year of the Pegasus

2x (0) Preparation

2x (0) Shadowstep

2x (1) Drone Deconstructor

2x (1) Gear Shift

2x (1) Stick Up

2x (2) Dart Throw

1x (2) From the Scrapheap

2x (2) Greedy Partner

2x (2) Kajaā€™mite Creation

2x (2) Pit Stop

1x (3) Mimiron, the Mastermind

1x (3) Velarok Windblade

1x (4) Puppetmaster Dorian

1x (4) Sonya Waterdancer

2x (5) Sandbox Scoundrel

1x (7) Marin the Manager

1x (9) Yogg-Saron, Unleashed

1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000

1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000

1x (4) Virus Module

1x (5) Perfect Module

2x (10) Factory Assemblybot

AAECAcmLBQi29gXm+gWplQaOlgbHpAaKqAaxwQa6wQYL9p8E958Ev/cF6PoFofwFuf4FkIMGuYYGyJQGh6gGs6kGAAED9LMGx6QG97MGx6QG6N4Gx6QGAAA=

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

How to make most hearthstone decks better in 2024.

And this.

Itā€™s disgusting how much the late game is dominated by the same cards over and over and over again.

Blizz doesnā€™t know how to make fair cards anymore. They just try to make everyone able to blow out the game at around the same time.

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Iā€™m currently running a homebrew midrange/agro triple frost DK that I made in standard. Most successful deck Iā€™ve ever come up with. Currently sitting at 60-70% winrate at close to 1k legend though it will probably drop over time.

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To be fair, the game was always like this, you have 1-2 predominant packages and you put them in every deck if you want to make it tier 1 or 2

The only thing changed is that you used to have aggro package and late game package, now thereā€™s one OP package, and thatā€™s it

But thatā€™s just a temporary thing, I suppose

Eh, prior to United in Stormwind it was waaaay easier to build a tier 2 ish jank deck.

Now decks are kind of crazy powerful or donā€™t bother, and some of the crazy powerful stuff doesnā€™t even break tier 3 these days because something disgusting is crowding out the top tiers.

The design of recent cards doesnā€™t give me any hope of this trend reversing.

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Plenty of healthy decks in standard. If youā€™re not good at homebrewing you could look into netdecks. But of course stepping away from the game is always good option, not nearly enough people realize that for vidja games these days.

People been saying the game is broken/gone for ages now though.

Also if the opponent keeps making so-called misplays but still wins then perhaps either it wasnā€™t a misplay (or not a significant one) or the deck has multiple win conditions, which i recommend having multiple win conditions. Seen a few people on here complaining about Dirty Rat cuz their one battlecry win condition got pulled out n dealt with lol

This was my biggest issue as well.

The design space is narrowed by making 4-5 legendary cards auto-includes if you want to play past turn6. Most classes lump their titan or reno & reno class card on top of these.

So then it is just who gets them first and what effects you got from them decides the game. Nothing else that happened before these turns matters.

Iā€™m currently D4 heading into D3 with Control PudZarimi Priest. That deck doesnā€™t even register on the radar.

Itā€™s very possible.

But the meta decks definitely are easier climbs because they are so broken and polarizing to a lot of other decks.

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Nah Dirty Rat is a legit good card. Formulating the game around having single legendary minions makes burn and the Rat super good. Even if your deck has multiple wincons, thereā€™s usually a more focused wincon and if you are having drawn out games where people are taking burn damage and both players play Rat, the person who hits better on Rat might just win the game on that premise alone.

That is kind of an RNG loss which is why people say the game is broken. Well I mean itā€™s broken for a couple reasons but itā€™s not unplayable. Flesh and Blood was broken for a bit, YGO has been broken for a while, etc. People can criticize game design but just because the game is playable doesnā€™t mean there arenā€™t issues. Sometimes issues canā€™t be fixed via game balance or card design because game systems get in the way of stuff like non-interaction during an OTK (a problem Hearthstone has).

Nice! Lol thatā€™s an interesting sludge variant.

I think part of my frustration is Iā€™m trying to build an owlonious druid deck, and by God its frustrating. Iā€™m homebrewing it in the sense that thereā€™s generally two schools of thought

  • draw owlonious, eonar, Freya though Dorian via the flower child

  • set up colifero to drop 4 or more copies of owlonious

And you can mix and match these. The frustration comes from having to balance putting in unkillax into the deck to give you the survivability to last long enough.

You can also play with dropping in cover artists, and if you do or not depends on if you can run oaken summons effectively. Furthermore, thereā€™s the possibility of running Marian which can hit your win conditions as well with the wand, and you might need shattered reflections to reset of you draw owlonious in a slow matchup.

Also you can experiment with running etc with mana cluster in it, but again impacts your oaken summons.

Basically thereā€™s probably at t2 deck in there somewhere but itā€™s a struggle to find the perfect combination of these factors when your opponentā€™s deck varies so much.

For example, tones of hand buff Paladins, the ones that are non excavate are easy to beat if you drop unkillax, but the ones that have Finley board clear can destroy your unkillax turn.

Then thereā€™s rogues which can just high roll repeatedly.

I guess Iā€™m just not having fun because I canā€™t build my deck against one archetype, they have variants that cause significant re-evaluation of the value of cards, for example unkillax.

But yea I could just pick up rogue or Warlock and blast my way to top end of t1000, but I refuse thereā€™s an ideal form of this homebrew somewhere.

yeah ngl the state of the game rn is really bad

you either play OTK decks or Aggro

if you play anything even remotely slow you cannot let a single thing stay alive, and even then you can still lose

only exception is control warrior and thats pretty much only because of the ridiculous amounts of armor gain

like sure the weaker decks are still playable, but its more the meta decks are simply not fun to play or play against
like sure, well rogue is super fun! but when im playing against paladin, hunter, and dk every game why even bother (and im not saying decks like well rogue should be at that level, but you get my point)

I agree that the new expansion is going to blow this to a huge degree, I can already tell aggro is going to be unstoppable for the first few weeks (I mean seriously look at the card library, aggro warlock, paladin, hunter, rogue, etc)

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dirty rat is a sick card

and tbh ill never understand why people complain about RNG in hs so much
like its literally always been a core part of the gameā€™s identity and I mean yeah everyone agrees it can suck and feel horrible, but then theres times when it works in your favor and feels amazing!
and i think thats just how its always gonna be

also calling YGO broken is kinda silly cuz atp its by design, the power level of yugioh is so astronomical its barely even a game anymore

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can you share the deck? long time since i play frost dk