Again, the magnetize on both components allows for the burst damage by basically giving it charge.
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Magnetic on an existing minion is not a charge. Itâs a buff. Think kings, DS/IF, etc.
Technically itâs still burst damage, but not all burst damage are equal. Burst damage that requires a minion to survive is a lot different than something that literally can be done from hand.
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The effect is the same, and given the number of deathrattles that produce multiple mechs, practically, getting a mech to survive isnât difficult.
Itâs a lot of value for a 2 card combo. An 8 mana recurring board clear is pretty good already. Put the 6/6 body on top of it and it is extremely good.
And given how easy it is to make it a 3 card combo, thatâs where it is coming near broken territory.
Nope, it is not the same, and you actually gave the reason: you need to build your deck to have all these sticky minions that will survive.
Whereas I can slot leeroy into just about any deck, independent of what that deck is doing. Any synergy leeroy has with the deck is just icing on the cake.
Yeah, so? Bliz never said you canât have valueable things late game. Post-nerf bone mare is 8 mana one card and it provided 9/9 stats, , plus taunt, and itâs effectively +4 damage burst
Heck, two classic dark iron dwarves add 8/8 stats with +4 burst damage.
Neither of those have a board clear? Neither of those kill your own board.
And none of these, including venom+missile, compare to the value that the greedier decks could do: mages with CC, priests with res, shamans with shudder, shamans and warriors with their hero cards, locks before they turned to zoo were doing things with shuffle but even rafaam alone can give them a ton of value, etc.
Venom+missile serves as a solid counter to keep those greedy decks honest, while itself and mech hunter overall can be kept in check by more aggressive decks that arenât easily stopped by just one board clear on turn 8.
It isnât easy. Again, you have to build your deck around it. Itâs like saying itâs âeasyâ for res priests and conjurer mages to always bring back big dudes/taunts/vargoth or spawn mountain giants and that 7/8 taunt when they cast mass res/conjurerâs calling.
When the minion is already on the board, itâs not part of the combo. Thatâs like saying DS/IF is a â3 cardâ combo by including whatever minion the priest is targeting.
They nerfed bonemare for precisely this reason, so not sure it proves your point. They nerf things that have too much value all the time.
And you needed to build a deck with Battlecries to take advantage of Shudderwock, and you needed to build a Highlander deck to pull of Razakus and you needed to put demons in your deck to pull of cubelockâŚ
Deckbuilding constraints are a consideration, but they donât completely obviate the need for occasional nerfs. Including lots of sticky deathrattle mechs in a class with steong mechs and deathrattle synergy isnât exactly a strong restriction. And the strength of the restriction needs to be taken into account when considering the strength of the combo.
Not sure what your point is here. The synergy is easy to come by which makes the combo consistent. If it were less consistent it would be less strong, but it isnt. You could put Leeroy in a deck that doesnât accommodate it, but then it would be a bad card in that deck, since it isnât intrinsically overpowered. Some cards have been nerfed for simply being too strong on their own(e.g. bonemare), but usually it is the interaction with other cards.
Mage w/ cc: 1) complained about endlessly, probably will get a nerf. 2) requires you to maintain a large hand size and run a few other minions to maximize the combo. Very little in the way of win condition otherwise. Thwarting or not drawing MS+V doesnât change the mech hunterâs strategy, itâs just a pure bonus that props up its win rates against other decks. The cards are fine on their own, and super powerful when combined.
Priests with res: good luck finding people that think this deck/mechanic is ok.
Shamanâs and warriors with hero cards: they are legendaries, so one offs and they are supposed to be that powerful. If venomizer were a legendary, it would be fine.
Locks with shuffle:. All the minions die at the end of that turn, they canât go face, and it costs 10 mana, and again, includes a legendary. Rafaam also a legendary
It has modestly bad winrates against murloc shaman, token druid and hooktusk rogue, but those in the 45% range. Thatâs not bad enough for them to be considered a check on a deck that has positive win rates against everything else, and posts 60-70% win rates against a big chunk of the meta.
Ok, so Mechacthun isnât a combo deck?
MechaâThun is played from hand and killed in the same turn in all viable builds except Undatakah, in which case Undatakah is played from hand and killed on the same turn.
It fits his (accurate) definition of a combo. Literally nobody is leaving their MechaâThun on board unless they want you to kill it, ie theyâre playing an Undatakah variant or they discovered it off something and itâs not actually their primary win condition
But it doesnât give Charge + Windfury, which would be the equivalent of pre-nerf Blade Flurry.
The Rogue would usually go something like Hero Power, Deadly Poison, Prep, Tinkerâs Sharpsword Oil, attack face, Blade Flurry. That was at the time 6 face damage + 6 board & face damage for 6 mana (Prep discount was 3 and Flurry was 2 mana). Mixing in an additional Deadly or Oil was common, as was playing a Southsea Deckhand to utilize the +3 minion attack from Oil (if the Rogue didnât have a minion in play already).
No, bonemare was not nerfed for that reason. The nerf was increase to mana cost, while leaving the burst (+4/+4) and value (5/5 bonemare itself) alone. In other words, the amount of burst/value in the card was acceptable for late game (what I said)
The overall point here is that what you seem to think is too much burst damage (and stats, and board clear that kills your side too, etc) for late game really isnât.
Thatâs, like, my argument to you dude, when you claim how âeasyâ it is to use magnetic.
I think you have things backwards dude. The onus is not on me (or somebody else) to obviate the need to nerf venom+missile, but for you to demonstrate that a need to nerf exists first.
You have to look at the weaknesses too. Running so many deathrattles makes the mech hunter deck weaker to zoo decks that are sticky and/or can reflood a lot, and the win rates show this.
The point is the terms you were using to call venom+missile are misleading if not incorrect. Perhaps itâs unintentional, but by using that language youâre insinuating itâs strong, without actually making an argument that it is strong.
âŚand some cards donât get nerfed. Youâre not really saying anything there.
To save space, Iâll try to summarize this blurb
- What other classes have might be OP too
âŚor they might not be OP, and none of them, including venom + missile, needs nerf. Appealing to how lots of people complain about it isnât a very good argument either. By that logic, venom+missile isnât that high on peopleâs complaint list (I mean thereâs this thread, but few other ones), so⌠talk about nerfing those other things first before venom?
- Legendaries/hero cards
Rarity does not always equate to power. This is one of the oldest lessons in HS. For every good legendary, thereâs like half a dozen duds that are more for memes and fun. Lower rarities can have just as much impact in the game, if not in value then in tempo. Bonemare (a common!) comes to mind again. None of this changes the fact - and the underlining point Iâm repeating - that there are plenty of ways to get insane value once youâre in the late game, be it in burst, in card value, in healing, in stats, etc. What venom+missile can provide isnât that out of line.
First, X checking Y has no relation to how much Y beats Z.
Second, whether itâs 45 or 40 or 30% doesnât detract from my point, which is that some decks are favored against other decks. Thatâs as far as I meant when I said zoo decks checked mech hunter.
Third, despite the 60-70% win rates, like a 1/3rd of the meta is still mages, not-hooktusk rogue, and bomb warriors, basically people with really bad win rates vs mech hunter. So taking a rift on your logic, canât we say hunters arenât really putting enough of a check on them?
Furthermore, you said so yourself: mech hunter is a consistent deck, and even if they donât draw the combo itâs not as big a deal as other decks not getting good draws. In other words, a lot of that 60-70% win rate has nothing to do with venom+missile anyway
So there are aother reasons why mech hunter win so much or other decks lose so much to it, such that nerfing venom+missile wouldnât be the answer.
Itâs a super powerful combo which I hate⌠But you can play around it. And save removal
blizzardâs too busy pumping out more trash
Yah save ur silence or premium removal for the poison missiles and somehow just deal with all the other magnetic monsters they make for the other 10 turns without that silence or removal.
Silence, copy, removal.
Every class has their version of it, or thereâs neutral cards that deal with the problem.
Sure, thereâs the odd moment whereâs youâre going to get a board clearâŚbut then thereâs the sweet moment when you answer in kind.
Never seen this in play. But, hey, combo wombos tho