Tiller is just popular because it’s new. It’s not even that OP (65% WR). I feel like slow decks like Big Priest just have a hard time accepting defeat. Aggro can most of the time rush them down before they get their combo off.
If you wanna talk about the Wild Ladder, talk about Secret Mage. 80%+ WR according to HSReplay. But no, lets nerf Tiller.
It’s also kinda frustrating that whenever you bring up Secret Mage, players are quick to defend it. Like “just tech in an Eater of Secrets or Kezan Mystic.”
Lets get one thing straight, Tiller has counterplay. A well timed Dirty Rat, Lotheb, Boompistol Bully, Coldlight Oracle, Prize Vendor, Deathlord, Mindrender Illucia, or Ice Block can win the game on the spot. If you don’t like tech cards, just play aggro or Secret Mage. But stop acting like a B Tier Meme Deck poses any real threat to the meta.
In case anyone forgot, Mechathunlock can still get their combo off by Turn 7. Which is typically the earliest you can pull Tiller off, at least using the Warlock list.
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They are fine with Agro going first with just a average draw killing you on turn 6 sometimes earler. They are not fine with combo doing the same with the god draw. Both have little you can do to beat those scenarios but at least with agro you think you might have a chance to call it a game with your own agro draw to fight back before the going first advantage snowballs them out of reach. The combo though not much of the disruption comes online in time. then even if you do get the disruption, often its a dice roll that it hits the right card such as Dirty Rat pulling a combo piece instead of just pulling deck filler so you lose anyway despite the tech.
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Relying on tech cards played at the exactly correct time is not a viable strategy against a Combo deck.
Tiller’s gone this week. Sorry.
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Hs replay stats are incredibly unreliable when it comes to wild. For a start, you’re probably looking at the Bronze to Gold range unless you pay, so the 80% stat is less than worthless (these ranks are full of joke decks). Secondly, samples sizes are tiny, so if I make one tiny tech substitution (not uncommon) my list will not be picked up. And they don’t report win percentages by archetype unlike Standard.
As for the relative merits of the decks and why one is deemed ok and the other not, you have to look at the wider meta. With Tiller, it makes all other non aggro decks obsolete. Before it was in the game, people were picking Odd Warrior as a soft counter (also because it is good against Darkglare) and numerous other decks had a roughly even chance against it, off the top of my head, I can think of
Odd Paladin
Odd Rogue
Pirate Warrior
Reno Priest
Big Priest
Darkglare Warlock
Mechthunlock can get their combo off early sure. That deck also has a terrible winrate, so you know that’s a false comparison. Whether you liked the meta pre-tiller is a matter of personal taste, but it is objectively the case that it is enormously warped by Tiller being a thing. We get it, you hate Secret Mage. I hate Reno Priest but I’d rather that was viable than Tiller existing. Let’s not have any more threads about this yeah?
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Optimized Tiller lists run duplicates of cards and can pull of combos far earlier than you can reliably draw a single tech that isn’t clogging your draw. Furthermore, Tiller lists run so much minion draw that the likely hood of a single rat hitting the right card is probably 1/5 to 1/3 max.
The deck is only not oppressive if you focus your aim on beating that deck, but since there’s 20 other decks people can also play that is within T1-high T3, it’s counterproductive in the ladder.
The deck is rightly getting nerfed. It’s a difference between T1 strong and oppressive by design. Tiller is the latter.
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This is like your 3rd thread trying to save tiller. It will be gone, and for good reason.
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This is inaccurate. You can still play Reno Mage (or any mage) if you run Ice Block. You can play Reno Priest by running Mindrender. You can play Mill Rogue and Mill out combo pieces. Ticatus or Dirty Rat in Reno Warlock. (I’m not gonna list everything here.)
The deck really isn’t that oppressive. To be clear, I don’t care that it’s leaving. All it was is a funny combo to pull off with a funny card. One and done. Its a change in the meta (which to me is welcomed since its been a year since I saw something other than Secret Mage and Reno Priest on my way to Legend).
The issue is there wasn’t even any time to think about countering the deck before it got nerfed…
If you’d like, you can give me the Diamond to Legend data off of HSReplay for Secret Mage and Tiller Priest/Warlock. I’d be very interested in what you find.
The combo eats your opponents next turn, so not even ice block can save you. I really don’t know why you are defending it. You really want to only face tillers for the rest of Wilds existance?
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honey, 65% WR is pretty OP, is tier S
balance is considered around 50% and stronger decks are around 54-56%, anything above that is extremely worrying
and about secret mage, yes, that’s another deck that deserves more than a few nerfs -but the existence of this doesn’t mean the other is healthy by any chance
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Those are some… interesting counters. Not exactly consistent are they?
I don’t pay for hs replay myself currently. I imagine the Secret Mage win rate is sky high because of all the Tillers they are farming (kek), which doesn’t really prove anything.
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I’M SICK TO DAMN DEATH OF THEM.
Can’t even play a single rank game now without running into one, it’s ruining rank for me, really fed up with them. The animations take forever and means you lose a turn, it needs a nerf and quick!!!
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Say your goodbyes while you can ,don’t be sorry later when it gets butchered. I know for sure i’m not gonna miss that mindless load of bull.
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Which is it? The deck is clogging the meta and 90% of the matches are the deck or is it that they’re lying and you shouldn’t tech against it. I mean hell dirty rat is a good card against a LOT of the decks short of big priest which I haven’t seen so not sure why people keep brining it up all the time. So let’s stop changing the “truth” when it suits you.
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Sure let’s nerf the other mindless crap like 90% of the aggro decks, raza anduin, secret mage, etc. Oh wait you’re just mad and refuse to tech.
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The deck is oppressive, period. If you think a single or double dirty rat that you happen to draw on turn 5 while simultaneously justifying have two less cards used for your own deck is not considered oppressive, you’re delusional.
If you feel like you HAVE to run two or more cards AND draw them both in order to not die by turn 7, then the deck is considered oppressive.
Also, what deck is going to run too highly risky cards that doesn’t even guarantee a win? Are you going to put 2 dirty rats in a secret mage? Good luck losing to every other deck. Are you going to run two dirty rats in highlander? What about Big Priest? Did I also not include the fact that even the best of tech doesn’t even guarantee you hitting the cards? With my fairly optimized Priest List, a single rat has maybe a 1/3 to 1/4 chance of hitting a crucial combo piece, which I run two of. Putting that in statistics with actually drawing or mulliganing those cards? You’ve got maybe 1/8 chance of hitting a card that matters by turn 7.
Too many dumb people speak their mind when they have no idea how balance in Wild should work.
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Welp, since it’s likely gone by tomorrow, might as well discuss what we learned from it.
The main problem many don’t get or outright ignore is the turn burning (remember Ysera portal into Nozdormu?).
Closest parallel to the combo is the current version of Mecha’Thun, and they just can’t compare. McThun is a many many card combo, clearly telegraphed and reasonably disruptible.
Razakus super burst combo can be sniped, and hero power teched (though super-specific tech is maybe not healthy, safe equilibrium here?).
But Tiller? That’s not a deck, that’s gambit any deck may and will (would) splash.
So long, pardner
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I dont know where you get your claim from but there is no way it’s accurate for the entire ladder.
I play secret mage at diamond and at best it is 55% if you are a really
excellent player.
You are using flawed statistics is my guess.
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This just shows you that people will ignore balance when it suits their interest and why people who say “wait until x settles” I usually just straight up ignore.
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Secret mage does NOT have a 80% win rate. Maybe against your terrible deck…
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