And rightfully so. The only legal defense that loot box games have against accusations of gambling, in many countries, is the claim that there is no prize. A line of legalese saying that Hearthstone cards cannot be traded and are worth absolutely nothing is brought up in court if a gambling case is made. If any game developer did what you suggest and didn’t treat it as gambling (e.g. prohibiting children from playing) they would be sued and they would lose because the demonstrable market value of cards would be prosecution exhibit A.
Sure.
Because in the end of the day it is gambling.
Not by legal definition(the one that matters) but the dictionary one i guess.
With or without monetary value people for sure are far more happy with a legendary card than a common one.
Still it gonna happen eventually because the demmand is very high and when it happens the industry will have to rethink itself anyway because that cheap trick will not be enough anymore.
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the numbers of games played each day have divided by 3 , if they ddon’t understand they will never …
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Well, when you barely win a 40 minutes long control priest mirror match… and then you lose the next game on turn 4 just because the rogue has trickster+scourge in his hand… and then you switch to treant druid and only face control warriors and warlocks with full boardclear in every singe turn… and you switch back to control priest and you lose 3 games in a row against hyperaggro… yes, it can be a little bit tilting and frustrating… But this is Blizzard game design, everything works as intended.
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I think the thing is. A lot of people tend to remember bad experiences much stronger than the good ones. Competitive sports bring about a desire to always win as close to even 90%+ of the time. But the laws of nature only allow winners to exist in a 50% wr game by perhaps having people who perhaps lose more in their early stages.
Most humans if asked, naturally like to value confidence as the most important thing, even over natural ability at time.
Most people don’t want a doctor to say “maybe” to them. They want a sports star to say, “YES!!! We can! We will!”
It doesnt matter if the person is doing surgery with lego blocks and a spoon and has university of KFC as their degree. So when 90% of people naturally prefer to think they’re way above average, and everyone else is stupid and inferior to them.
They might talk a big game, but then perhaps end up one of those 40% wr people who lose to bots or move their queen into their own Chess Fool’s mate. And rather than blame the moves, call it bad rng! Lose 2-5+ in a row, and or perhaps end up feeling extremely frusterated at a game. ex: “Clearly, chess can’t BE skillful if i LOST at it!!!”
Maybe for some people it has forbidden fruit status and the day they swore revenge, while for the other it’s just another tuesday, floating around, a little bored but comfortable and more eager to mess around and screw around for fun. And figure out what to do with the other 3/4 weeks hitting 10-11 stars playtesting and wondering what to do next.
And well aware there’s still people far above them, eager to take 40 minutes counting cards and a thesarus to play every deck like a 40 minute ropecoach aggro deck.
It’s not to necessarily say that video games are ultimately worth more than your sanity or time. I remember a lot of times even if i could, i’d just go for d5 rather than spend 3-10 hrs to grind to legend.
As time went on, it started becoming a grind done in a single evening. I’d still get tilted at losses too. Especially the first fee early 1-2 losses near d1 and then slipping to d2 before coming back. But then at some surreal moment i began to track my records and notice i was getting mad at like 2 games i lost with like 25W: 13L and had it fair. Then later some months started getting to like absurd 35W:7L for the mirror match. The winrate of a mirror SHOULD only be around 50%.
Yet i was winning 5x more than i was losing, even against people who copied the deck card by card, but had no idea what any of them did.
They’d play flexible combo pieces without ever knowing the combo and dump the other in hand 4 turns later unactivated.
They’d make bad trades, or overly play for board control missing hand lethal on a 10 hp opponent to clear a 13 hp board. They’d miss lethal, flub discovers, play EXTREMELY winnable boards into aoe, (when throttling it when already ahead could win the match), or vice aversa.
Yet the gap between the top player of hs and chess on a t1 deck and a avg might maybe be like 35-45% odds vs 55-65% wr on the top. While in chess, the chance might shoot up to literally 0.01-1% avg joe wr vs a 90-99% wr Magnus/Hikaru chess champion.
Most people like to imagine in a purely skill based system, there should be no matchmaking. The “best player” should win 100% of the time. (Everyone likes to think they’re top dog. And the less experience one may have, the less this view may have been challenged.)
But in practice one of the sometimes most important player bases are new players. And if they end up blitzed 20x in a row, quit, and keep leaving. Usually many people expecting to have 1 vs 5 rambo victory scenes end up 0 kills 27 deaths in practice. Everyone thinks they’re a god in their head, but most people get stomped instead. So i dont mean to be rude.
But perhaps i worry if maybe all the accusations sometimes thrown about rigging might be perhaps… Coping is too strong a word, but i kinda wonder if people are using the idea that they are all supposed to be rambo.
And pvp video games, while ironically meant as a leisurely escape, provide a odd reality check that most people are average when they join. But tend to get better or seasoned with time and experience.
But yeah standard still definitely has a lot of stuff you can’t no longer recover from. Even if it might not immediately obvious like chess moves blundering your queen 4 moves in advance. You can’t win every one.
But your opponents playing cards they put in their deck is one of the most basic things to play around for most people…
Tl:dr try gist
o Most people like to think of themselves as above average me thinks. Who thinks of themselves as under?
o Most people by design, can only win 50% of the time in pvp games. But may want/expect/tilt(?) with any loss. 35-70% wr or not paradoxically
o They might get stuck in d5-d1 (51-52%+ wr), or maybe even gold/plat.(45-50% wr needed)Maybe instead of acknowleding maybe everyone always has room to improve, and climbing out. They might blame rigging, and ironically trap themselves at low ranks by thinking it’s rigging holding them back. Not easier(?) self improvement(??)
Top players are more skilled at getting lucky?
There is no skill in finding outs from nothing. None.
This game has never been less skill testing than it is right now.
Indeed. There’s a reason why Chess is considered both highky skillfull and having a nearly infinite skill ceiling. RNG is inherently not competitive. No matter how you slice it, you’re relying on luck. Just because you know how to utilize the luck well, doesn’t mean having it is more competitive. Yeah, it’s a skill, but it’s inherently less skillful than not using it and winning.
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In general, any time you see “no skill in ______” it’s a toxic attitude. Including here.
As Reggie once said, “If it’s not fun, why bother?” I think more and more people are asking that very question themselves, and that’s partly why the game has been in a steady decline over the past few years. The unchecked power creep, Mana cheating, and the number of high-roll games have severely damaged the game’s enjoyability for many people. This is purely anecdotal, but when I exit Hearthstone, I often find myself in a worse mood than when I launched it, and that’s why I don’t feel bad when the Hearthstone developers get the axe because they failed at making a game that’s enjoyable for both players.
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it’s kind of an edgy thing when people talk about skill in HS. there is really no skill. playing the best card at the best time is just like stopping at a red light. it’s not a skill thing. it’s just having common sense and making an intelligent choice. don’t think that because they have tournaments that players are matching based on skill. it’s not skill that gets people there. it’s dedication to playing constantly and knowing what the most OP decks and matchups are. rng is just another normal thing like which card you draw being rng. cards like the yoggs are also great for the game. yogg has always been one of my favorite cards. the whole goal here is to have a good time.
the quotation is nice but i have a different take on it. i think people focus far to much on winning or losing at the game. that’s why they get tilted. the other thing that happens is they get matched against a broken deck and they get tilted because it’s an unfair matchup. all of that can be avoided by not caring. i don’t have a problem with not caring but it seems other players do. i can just read some of these forum posts to see that and there are snarky people on here making jabs at anyone who doesn’t care. they seem to think that winning at this game matters. i have no idea why.
There’s a lot of different skills involved in making those decisions. You forgot to add foresight in card management, what you can draw next… All that. The more RNG you add into the game, the more RNG covers for a lack of those skills. Or you can just flat-out get lucky and generate the exact card you need to win. Or you can play a single card that casts 10 spells at once randomly and win. That takes no skill. Managing your resources does.
This is precisely the kind of attitude I was referring to.
You don’t see or understand the skills involved =/= they don’t exist.
Why do Death Knight decks typically max on School Teacher and Vizier? It isn’t so that they can nut their opponent with the perfect card 1/50 games, it’s because the pool of cards they can access is a nicely curated set of generally good spells, which can offer versatility in a variety of proactive and reactive plays. Cards like these reward players for understanding matchups and knowing the card pools. It’s not about just randomly finding the best possible answer to the opponent’s board. Yes, this can happen, and equally they can completely miss, but looking at the extremes misses the point. The average outcome is what matters. You do not measure skill in any high variance game over a single match, you measure it over many (bolded for emphasis because people continue to compare Hearthstone to Chess and think they are making a point when they’re not); and over many matches, the players that make the most out of the marginal discover options will win far more than those that only hunt for the perfect answer or bust.
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If you have a Swiss army knife, and none of the extensions can help you out of your current situations, you will of course hit the “generate a random option” button. The reason DKs usually play those cards is because of synergy with their hero power and having a small card pool. It’s their best option out of tough situations, and they fill a tempo spot. I bet a bunch of people playing it don’t even know those are the reasons they are so prominent on lists.
This is one (very suboptimal) use for the discover cards. This isn’t what you want to do with them the majority of the time.
A nicely curated set of generally good spells. Yes.
I’d argue that playing triple Blood DK and having multiple board clears is a better option out of tough spots. Running some discover minions to try and find a Corpse Explosion or Asphyxiate in F or U is reasonable (albeit tenuous af) but generally, F and U decks are proactive in nature and don’t want to use them for this. Rather, they want things to increase their reach, bolster their board or find cards that are good against the opponent’s strategy (such as finding cold feet against an aggressive minion-focused deck).
Overall, discovering isn’t just about finding answers. It’s also about finding more difficult questions to answer and adapting your strategy for specific matchups. Idk where this idea comes from that all players are doing is holding onto discover cards until they’re losing and then just use them as a Hail Mary to find a Whirlpool.
You’re so off topic. I was explaining to you how it doesn’t take skill. You don’t need to break down your thoughts on the reasons why people use them.
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Dude, tell yourself that finding a winning board clear with your only out left is skill, but you’re just smoking your cope through a six foot long water pipe.
There is zero skill in finding outs from out the air. None.
Because their options are so good that a braindead monkey could find options from them. They are better than Zephys and require no set up.
Are you seriously going to tell me that DK discover is skill? Lol.
Exactly this, but that’s not skill.
It doesn’t.
I mean, look, if someone doesn’t understand the game then it looks like magic, but any semi competent player should have a pretty good plan of tiers for discover, knowing what their bad, good, better, and best answers are before the card is played. It’s a stretch to call that skill.
What do you even think that skill is, if it isn’t making the correct choices?
Imagine, your opponent is mech rogue or treant druid with perfect starting hand and topdeck in every turn.
You have terrible starting hand, even more terrible mulligan and terrible draw.
You are dead on turn 4.
The game was obviously decided by skill, not by the rigged “rng” algorithm. 
Or too many combinations of cards in those decks are broken.