Seriously, I don’t usually make posts, but ive been playing HS consistently since sunken city (had played on and off from beta but eh)
and like, paladin has been an S tier class pretty much that whole time? like it has been the dominant class for over a year
and rn it literally feels like wack-a-mole
one overpowere deck gets nerfed, another one pops up, and then that gets nerfed, and then another pops up
like the only time paladin wasnt dominant was a little while back when they did that mass nerf, and even then it only lasted like a week before Flood Paladin replaced it
and then this years core came out with leeroy like paladin is a class that never feels fun to play because there’s very little agency
if anything stays on their board, you lose
and with handbuff paladin that doesn’t even matter anymore! they can OTK you from hand by around turn 6 - 8!
I hate to complain because I genuinely love hs rn, but paladin is just ruining the game for me atp and is making seriously not want to play
like idk I thought maybe it’d change eventually but it hasnt, and with the PiP card reveals it looks like paladin is getting even more tools to compliment what theyre already dominating with
while I do agree it sucks to see because pally does have some cool archetypes that just dont see play, like recently with the big paladin support in festival and workshop
just sucks to see such miserable decks float to the top
Actually, paladin sees average play when they’re tier 2, like recently/now where they’re one of the tier 2 decks below druid.
When they are tier 1 they shoot up in play rate.
When they’re tier 3 or 4 they go down in play rate.
…but this is pretty expected for any class. As of vs 299 druids are most played (by a mile) and shamans the least. In that same report, druid is the only tier 1 deck/class (the splish splash ban happened days after the report) while shaman doesn’t… even… show up on top 1k?
I would argue pally isn’t good because they can do everything, but by specializing at something to overwhelm the opponent. Aggro pally focus on early and often board pressure and flooding. Handbuff trades that early pressure for all that stacked handbuffed minions after early game. Consider that some decklist run magartha to draw. In other words handbuff is so specialized in minions (and the weapon) that they simply don’t run spells.
Reno pally may try to do everything by being a highlander value/control deck, but reno is the weakest of the pally deck types.
But is also has lifesteal, draw, rush (which is removal), charge, and minis… meaning it’s always full hand and endless pressure. It doesn’t run out but ramps even stronger into and through them mid game.
Spells are one way to do something so I don’t get what you think this means.
A DS lifesteal rush minion is even stronger than lifesteal three damage spell or destroy a minion spell because it leaves a body on the board.
I’m saying it has removal, healing, draw… it does everything. Pick a match up and you can out play the opponent’s game plan.
I’ve been thinking about this recently and I’m pretty sure I’ve figured out why.
Paladin and Warrior are the only class that actually have a strong Core Set.
Think about it, both Paladin and Warrior run a minimum of 8 of their Core Set cards regardless of archetype. No other class has a strong foundational backdrop of cards like these two. I’m not saying that Paladin/Warrior core sets should be nerfed mind, but I do think we should look at the other 9 classes’ current sets in Standard and see why they don’t have strong supportive cards.
That’s not pally specific. Many decks can boast to have the same or similar e.g armor for lifesteal, weapons/spells/battlecries that deal damage from hand for charge)
Off top of my head I can claim warrior, druid, dk, hunter, and shaman have those too. Their end result deck doesn’t perform as well as pally? That is because, as I said, pally specializes in minions.
When you specialzied in minions, a single handbuff buffs basically all your stuff (your removal, your lifesteal, your draw, etc)
If a rainbow DK drops his handbuff mini, it may benefit like 25% of his hand, but not his weapon or spell removals.
Except according to vs 299 handbuff pally loses to aggro pally, token hunter, and dragon druid. All those have faster pressure, able to overwhelm handbuff before or despite handbuff dropping buffed up minions. Things like hunter secrets or druid mana also play a role.
See above that specialization means that a single handbuff affects everything.
The flip side of this specialization though is that if you can’t handbuff in time, your draw/lifesteal/removal/etc just won’t cut it. That’s what usually happens against the aforementioned 3 decks.
I disagree tbh, pally has tools to do whatever it wants
like if they need to survive they have silly amounts of lifesteal
access to flood tools
access to pretty great removal if its even necessary
like paladin has such unbelievably dominant tempo that no other class even comes close, its ridiculous
This is basically the issue. Paladin has better minions than most classes. Their minions are already ludicrously efficient (usually cause ds is undercosted) so when you add a statline buff they become oppressive.
But for this specific iteration of paladin the offender is clearly leeroy thought probably they can otk easily enough with any charge minion.
Voyage to the Sunken City in general was when the powerlevel of the game skyrocketed, and for the most part minions became undercosted with really good stats and effects.
Paladin has always been one of the more minion-heavy hero classes so it makes sense that Paladin gained a boost in strength.
I hate it when Paladin is strong, because that shifts the meta into attrition and hard control, which are far worse to play against imo.
I can agree that paladin had seen worse days regarding player agency and how boring it is.
Nowadays it is more “mid” than anything and that is some progress.
With that said the class is just a big ball of everything RN.
Like…
How exactly a minion with charge is different from a direct damage spell?
How exactly a minion with rush is different from a removal spell?
Sorry but if paladin can handbuff it’s way into 30 damage charge damage then spells doing the same are a non issue.
There is virtually no counterplay against spells that do raw damage. And in general, spells tend to be faster, require less investment than handbuffing, and spells tend to be more impactful.
You can counter charge with taunts.
I do agree about Rush, which is far too ubiquitous, and Rush creatures like the undead with lifesteal that damages adjacent minions give WAY too much value. Given that you can buff minions to the point where they deal more damage than most removals. With that said, Rush can only target a single minion (for the most part), whereas spell removals can deal AOE which is better under some circumstances.
But mage isn’t doing that… it’s the random yogg stuff that is so stupid right now.
Those cards are so infuriating because you literally kill yourself or pull a win out of no where. It’s not a good experience and they should stop it.
THat said, a deck that has no minions shouldn’t exist. It’s just a non game. It’s dumb. Mage should just get deleted at this point.
Was more metioning rainbow mage nerf again than anything.
Would prefer 1 Million times have decent spells printed than have a gigantic amount of junk that needs to be justified with manufacturing error and others cards of the type.
Like…
Can mage have a cast mechanic for powerful spells with time delay or that is too much to ask ?
like paladin is a class that never feels fun to play because there’s very little agency