too much RNG everywhere… too many board clears… what happened to this game? get rid of all this random bull… can we just get a card game?
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You forgot to mention insane amount of resource generating… hell strong aggro… and OTK.
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No.
Exactly what is the threshold for when “One Turn Kills” becomes problematic, in your opinion? Are we talking going from 30-to-zero? Are we talking just one specific card doing some/most/all of that damage? Please elaborate.
And, while you’re at it, could you clue me in on how nerfing aggro is supposed to prevent OTK’s that rely on insane resource generation and pump out 30-to-zero in one turn? You can’t have the cake, if you instead eat it.
Might could be I’m missing something though. I’m not perfect. So I’d rather like to hear your thoughts and clarifications on this matter.
I try to explain you gladly, however I am not perfect either… not even a high Legend player because always refused to play the most OP decks. Instead, I build my own decks, try to find my weaknesses and fix them.
Where does OTK become problematic? Well I can say only what I am seeing, it becomes problematic at 0 mana cost cards because OTK needs a lot of mana cheat to work. None of cards should cost 0 mana in any situtation. I managed to find a solution against that as a Paladin only player with more than 8000 wins… Resistance Aura did the job nicely, it does not let the enemy to have 0 mana cost spells for 3 turns and that was enough for me to beat them… however not all of the classes can do that. Also a board building can be useful because these are the weaknesses of the Chalice Brezee and Concierge. I also tried to defeat Lamp Lighter but it seems much more harder, Cold Feet maybe useable to break their chain of elementals, because that is the weak point of it… however couldn’t because there are too many elementals with 1 costs, so +5 doesn’t worth much… this card needs to be changed to let hit only minion… not any character I think.
Aggro and OTK are not connected directly. The probem with aggros is that… it has mass buffs which are making it insane strong and almoast unstoppable… if the enemy has not enough board clears and hand in the first 5 rounds… he is dead… THAT is the problem with it… in the old times… a card just boosted only 1-2 minions… not ALL of them… the enemy had more time to get stomething in hand and didn’t lose 15 HP from 30 in the first 5 rounds… That was much more better I think, it is just too unfair like OTK.
Endless resource generating is making control too strong, they are just discovering board clears, removers until the enemy is running out of gas… and THATS why the aggro wants to be so agressive… because they have no other chance to win against these.
In 1 word… POWER LEVER should be reduced drastically in my opinion to let the players enjoy the game again… There are just too many situations when ONLY 1 card can make the enemy fail too easy… and that is not good… this is just making players angry… I can repeat only myself… I am not mad when losing a match, losing is part of the game… I am mad if I lose a match and had no chance to win at all… I am always keeping my eye on my actions and try to learn from my mistakes… not even using a deck tracker btw… because I don’t need one… I know what cards do my deck contain because I built it… and still made it to Legend last month. Before the new expansion, I felt the game balanced enough finally… we had problems still with Warrior, some aggro and OTK… After the exp everything is about unavoidable direct damage feels like because they added cards which can generate just too much resources and too easily. RNG controls just too many things in this game now since they added more and more random generated cards. Skill doesn’t matter much because the game gives sometimes everything into the mouth of the enemy… and only a stupid player can’t win a match like that… this has nothing to do with skills. Need to give back the control to the players… and don’t let a randomity generator decide who needs to win the match.
I read your entire post, and I thank you for your honest and thoughtful response. There are some points I do agree with, such as the overall power level being insane, and a lot of RNG being present. If we were to assume Hearthstone “should” be balanced around reducing RNG variance and reducing “power swings” budgeted into single cards, then yes, both of those points would also be greatly problematic.
Where you and I differ, I think, is on the topic of whether those things are, in fact, problems, and also on the topic of netdecking.
I don’t see a problem with Hearthstone’s power levels and RNG because I don’t play Hearthstone to have a balanced game. Literally, I’m not expecting to “out skill” my opponent. If I wanted a skill based experience, I have tons of other games to get that from, and even other CCG’s (Magic The Gathering for example). I play Hearthstone for weird, wild, wacky stuff.
However, certain cards are just plain more powerful than others. That’s the nature of CCG’s - few people will buy that shiny new expansion if the cards are equal to or weaker than what they already have slotted. You may have some people trying homebrews, and that’s great. But you also have tons of competitive environments, both official or otherwise, large or small, where the goal is to win the competition.
Netdecking might never have become a thing if the Internet was never invented, and we were all still relying on our monthly Scrye to get news, and we were at the mercy of our local hobby shop for buying boosters. For better or worse, that is no longer the case. And barring systemic global catastrophe, it will never be the case again.
So what we’re left with, is a situation where someone WILL employ data aggregation and number crunches and sims and whatnot, and formulate THE best variant of a deck type that has at LEAST 50% win rate potential. It’s just GOING to happen, and that doesn’t mean you have to “like” it or “participate” in it yourself. But you’re going to be facing people who do use all tools available to them.
I think player agency is important. You don’t “have” to run the meta if you don’t want to. You can use your homebrew, and I also think there should be “dedicated” environments where it is “expected” to use homebrews. In my mind, “Casual” HS would fill that niche in theory, except in reality people just bot the hell out of it to get easy quest completion.
End of the day though, the TL;DR summary would be that netdecking is simply another tool that you really can’t afford to ignore if your goal is to win competitive variants of any given CCG. And regarding HS specifically, I don’t think power creep or RNG are problems, in the same way I don’t view the “90,000% multipliers” in Diablo 3 as itemization problems. That’s a personal opinion, and yours is equally valid. But, neither of us are the arbiter on how it “should” be, ya know?
Regarding OTK’s vs aggro. I understand why you’d dislike both of those, now that I’ve read your post. They’re both incredibly effective against homebrew’s, most of the time. Because you’re trying to get your proof-of-concept off the ground, and it’s clunky and slow and probably suboptimal. And you’re never given the chance.
You have valid frustrations. I just, well… I know this is going to sound trollish but I mean it sincerely: I feel like you should change your perspective.
Unfortunately, I can’t change my perspective because a game should be entertaning, not frustrating… forcing players into impossible matches is not entertaining at all…
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This part of your post is a fair criticism, but…
That part isn’t.
The game isn’t “forcing you into impossible matches.” What’s actually happening, is that you are handicapping yourself by refusing to play the decks and/or cards that win. And that’s honestly fine, on its face. Nobody’s forcing you to use the netdecks either, no more than they’re forcing you to homebrew.
It’s just, you need to manage your expectations. In fighters, you won’t win very often if you shun the S-tier fighters and refuse to corner/throw. In MOBA’s, you won’t win very often if you shun the S-tier champions and refuse to use certain items. In FPS’s, you won’t win very often if you shun the shotguns and refuse to camp. In RTS’s, you won’t win very often if you shun the early tech and refuse to scout. In RPG’s, you won’t win very often if you shun the end-game gear and refuse to level. The list goes on.
Here in Hearthstone, you won’t win very often if you shun the OP classes and refuse to netdeck. That’s just how it goes and it isn’t going to change. Ever. That is why I’m advising a perspective shift. When the Self is in conflict with the Other, there are only two resolutions: change the Self, or change the Other.
They aren’t going to remove the heavy rng element. Less rng means a more polarized rock-paper-scissors matchup.
Wild is still heavily dominating by Quest Pain Warlocks where no conquer is exist expect ultra fast aggro and game is finished by turn 6 latest. Congrat