Rogue is consistently one of the highest skill ceiling decks in the meta and when Rogue isn’t playable the meta often devolves into highly boring midrange/aggro spam. Decks like Handbuff Paladin and Dragon Druid don’t really have a skill ceiling outside of playing the green cards. They’ve been intentionally dumbing down other class archetypes (painlock which normally is one of my favorite archetypes is just "play the green card except INFERNAL!)
Doesn’t look much better for miniset if I’m being totally honest.
Edit: hey mods I flagged this because it devolved into thinly veiled insults and a weird very incorrect discussion of the autism spectrum.
Come on you got the espionage reprint in the miniset you can now spam your random cards all day long. Theres more than enough there now to show how skillful you are highrolling with casino rogue
Or you can switch to mage and manacheat highroll like the jackpot rogue days.
IDK what you mean… I’m simply using their logic here…
So if rogue has a high skill ceiling, and I see plenty of others playing rogue just fine at higher ranks, but the op can’t play rogue effectively, the logical conclusion is that they lack sufficient skill.
Fine. It’s just that you and another player seem to be rebutting in the bluntest ways possible today.
You are usually nicer, even when admonishing or correcting.
Rogue is my least favorite thing about this game atm.
I hate everything about their play - weapons that don’t end, discovering whole decks, and playing coins to get free legendary minions. It’s just awful.
rogue currently has sub 50 winrate even in high legend, the only rogue deck breaking 50% in high legend (where normally every deck has minimum 55% since its hard to stay high legend) is gaslight rogue
People who are bad at the game and will never get better are very quick to point to entire categories of play and confidently declare “there’s no skill to be found in there, none whatsoever.”
Rogue never sucks, people just aren’t skilled enough to play it properly.
If you can’t win more than half your games with rogue it’s clearly a skill issue with how high the skill ceiling is on rogue decks.
You should be able to predict your discovers and win seven of every ten games if you’re good at the game because discovering your entire deck and playing random cards is the pinnacle of skill and strategy.
Discover, like the vast majority of things in Hearthstone, is a mixture of luck and skill. NeonGhost believes in one extreme, which is why he brings up the other extreme as a strawman.
That fundamentally misunderstands the entire MMR design of the game. The more you win the more likely it is you will not, unless you are Legend 1 material more than all others who are Legend 1 material and good luck with that.
There is in fact no skill in randoness but situations where skill matter can only happen via randoness.
Why?
Because skill is deterministic. Presuming a scenario where you want to win:
If you have no randoness you gonna always do the “best move” and always induce the same scenarios.
Therefore losing any opportunity to exercise skill.
There is no skill in randoness but skill cannot be exercised properly in a world without randoness because it would have a very low ceiling most of the time.
I think this is technically inaccurate, but for practical purposes it’s true. Randomness is not the only way to procedurally generate a particular series of hundreds of different problems, it is merely the chosen way, because doing all of the problems in some kind of fixed order isn’t feasible.
What is important is increasing the number of puzzles to be solved.
Are you going to assert that physical card games that don’t have the same random mechanics as HS have no skill involved?
There’s a balance to be struck between zero discover/random and you only win the game if you get good random things. Rogue is way too far down the random extreme.
Pulling I win cards off random discover is not some great expression of skill and arguing otherwise is laughable.
It’s just that you and another player seem to be rebutting in the bluntest ways possible today.