Fixing lie in wait

i just saw zeddy’s review of the teased patch noted, and i wanted to throw this out there before it’s too late … i’ve watched both rarran and clarkhellscream do the “quest challenge” and while rarran was having a problem getting a win with priest quest, clark was salty over the rogue quest, specifically, that the ninja’s do nothing other than have delayed charge (i.e. stealth) … i think i’ve seen the suggestion to have the ninja have rush so that at least the can help fight for board as they pop in and out of the deck, and maybe that would be useful, but i feel like giving them some kind of leech/ballhog like attack upon being summoned after the quest pops would be 1) more useful and 2) more thematically appropriate … it also, perhaps potentially avoids any major shenanigans … i’m sure if they simply had rush and could smack into something, and get cycled back on board, markmckz could figure out some infinite combo that somehow otks … perhaps that still wouldn’t be very strong and just a meme otk, but any chance at an infinite combo has a chance to be broken and not just a meme

on a less serious note, i’m sad that the quest does not affect ogre ninja … tragic

if they did have something like “when this is summoned deal ‘x’ damage to the lowest health enemy” … idk what would be most appropriate … a single damage is probably too weak … idk what the nerf to ballhog is going to be … if the dmg is nerfed then maybe whatever that is should be the same for this … alternatively maybe it should be something like a magic missile effect based on the attack value of the ninja (so if u were to use the location or some other attack booster it would affect this) … or if it was going to be a more unique effect, it could be like the chess pieces where it deals its attack (or w/e appropriate dmg value) to whatever is opposite it when it hits the board

in any case, i feel like buffing the power level/utility of the reward would be better than reducing the requirements … i have to agree with the current consensus that the current reward is a little bland and not very useful

edit 1:

oh… u just gave me a really fun idea that would make it so that the ninjas were rather more defensive than offensive … perhaps a part of their deathrattle could be “give a random friendly character stealth that doesn’t have it for one turn” … or like it could drop a “smoke bomb” 0 mana spell to hand so u can target the effect … alternatively, it could be a part of it’s “when summoned effect” but that seems less strategic and perhaps more broken … short of aoe board clears, u can be very tactical about what you are going to have stealthed, and have it applied to ur hero (for defensive purposes most likely) or a big threat you don’t want removed … i kind of really like that idea since low target damage and magic missiles have been done to death and are closer to other class identities (i guess?) … also, stealth being sort of rogue’s pseudo charge has been lost a little as a class identity … probably the most balanced would be the random apply to a friendly character on death

maybe to make it have a little added punch to it, it could be like the pre-nerf paladin drink where it gives +1 attack if the target already has stealth (and then u take out the “that doesn’t have stealth” condition) … then they could be either attack buffing other board minions or your hero for that turn, and you would have to decide on whether to swing and lose stealth or hold out another turn

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we are all hoping they change it to give ninjas rush too

that would make the quesst and interrogation playable

Doubt it, knowing them it’s just going to lower the requirement, 5 down to 3 or 4

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Knife Juggler :woman_juggling: :hocho: :cold_sweat:

They can’t lower it. Kil’Jaeden counts as a shuffle activation. Master Dusk will draw two demons every turn for 1-mana.

If it’s lowered that would mean you only need 2-3 shuffles before activating the portal and getting Master Dusk in hand. Either the ninjas get buffed somehow or the entire quest has to be reworked.

In general, this quest is very dangerous to touch. I have no immediate solutions. I would have to think about it.

The only random thought that came into my head while playing—Rogue is my favorite class—was old Death Knight hero card, Valeera The Hollow. Playing Master Dusk could give your hero stealth for a turn. I’m not sure that’s enough, but it was a favorite mechanic…

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see my edit in the op, it replies to you, but i wanted to added it up top

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The ninjas could give you a random spell/card from another class that costs (x) less when they die. Maybe 3-mana less to fit the thematic 3/3 3-mana ninjas.

Again, you have to be so careful with this quest or it’s going to spiral out of control.

I would have to talk to different people and even then I wouldn’t probably introduce changes this patch. I would want to see how everything else is affected first before making a change to the quest.

Drawing two cards for one mana is ridiculously strong. The ninjas are merely one thing… it’s the hero power. Especially since they’re targeted cards you’re drawing. Ones that didn’t start in your deck.

The biggest issue with modifying this quest is that it’s in Rogue, which in general can be problematic and incredibly unpredictable.

they already teased the announced buff … that’s why i’m trying to throw out ideas before the official announcement … of course the meta will shift with the adjustments but i’m not sure just making the quest slightly faster is enough to compensate … sure you get the targeted draw … the best i’ve seen work (against me) has been to spell damage incindius and draw out the damage cards with the double hero power dude … it took him a lot to get there though and i wasn’t playing an aggro deck – had i been i don’t think the quest would have even completed … in a vacuum just getting 2x 3/3’s on board that don’t do anything on the turn isn’t very good, even if u could pull 2 more from the deck the turn u play the quest reward … in an older time, the max buffed hunter spell stone could be played turn 5 and was great even without stealth, but even that got power creeped

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Right… if the Rogue no longer is at risk of dying… you will have a serious issue. It is going to be difficult to say how a change to the quest will impact the strength of viable decks.

Honestly, I would rework the entire quest concept.

I honestly don’t care about the shuffles, I can complete the quest fairly quick, turn 4 on average, the problem is keeping the enemy board in check until then, I’ve tried a few variations and the best I got it to do before patch was get an opponent down to 10.

Even just removing the ninjas from the quest makes it better

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I really like the change they brought to it. Let’s see how it plays out.

I didn’t consider a reduction in mana and an increase in armor. While stealth is similar, the two in combination are very interesting.

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