TL;DR:
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Warrior has insane turn 1.
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Warrior has insane turns 4 and 5.
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You’re likely going to be expending 2 cards per their 1.
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None of the current decks capable of beating warrior are aggro decks, or even mid-range.
5 Likes
Isnt that how it should be? Control beats agro,working as intended.
Quest paladin beats control warrior,i would not be surprised to see lots of complaints about quest paladin once dr 7 has retired. Its the same infinite value but now its on the board and impossible to clear. (personally I like the deck,but I can already see the complaints once it becomes stronger against agro).
Murlocs can still win against warrior,they are not favored but if they get their good curve and warrior misses a turn then murloc can easily win. The slow murlocs from shaman like last expansion will also have a decent matchup.
Its no autowin for warrior,they are favored.
2 Likes
Well.
Combo beating aggro is how it should be too and the control players whined until combo centric decks got whipped out of the existence.
So why aggro players should not do the same?
3 Likes
Arguably, “Control beats Aggro” should mean “Control is favored”, not “Control is almost guaranteed a win.” As important as archetype balance is, making the game about a literal (or almost literal) rock-paper-scissors dynamic isn’t really fun.
15 Likes
It is a guaranteed win almost 100% of the time, unless the warrior misplays.
Mecha’thun where are you my friend, we need you !!
as far as i know we had different control warrior decks …and each one beat aggro so why should this one be different ?
The other control warrior decks weren’t strong in the early, mid, and late game.
2 Likes
Because it beats:
Aggro
Burn
Tempo
And a small list of other control decks.
It isn’t tier 1 because it beats aggro.
It is tier 1 because it beats almost everything that isn’t tweaked exactly to play against it.
Also because OTK that used to beat it not exists anymore.
1 Like
Amen brother! …
Um…because it has no material weakness on the ladder, maybe?
I don’t think warrior needs a nerf. I generally dislike nerfs because little good results from that blunt instrument. I think minor improvements like what the devs did a few months ago is a better approach.
Even for the now broken pocket galaxy. It’s better for a card to see play than never. Otherwise its only value is dust. That’s not good game design and it sucks from a psychological perspective.
What they need to do is dislodge the idea that class definitions means limitations on capabilities. Classes should be defined by things unique mechanics and flavor like combo, burgle, resurrect, enrage, secrets, etc. You shouldn’t be defining classes through handicaps. This isn’t a mmorpg like WoW. Then they need to unwind the battery of ill conceived nerfs starting from December 2017 to present.
2 Likes
Warrior has enough removal tools that trying to play on the board against it usually causes you to have a bad time. They’re more mana efficient than you are on a card-for-card basis, so if you try to match them card-for-card you end up losing.
As first-rate players have pointed out time and again, the way you beat them is by repeatedly building a board that is threatening enough to force an AoE and run them out of those cards. Aggro decks don’t have enough suatainable firepower to do that. Some midrange decks do, and some don’t.
I’m in the “nerf Dr. Boom” camp because it simply provides too much mana efficiency for the rest of the game. A Dyn-o-Matic, which is a Yeti with a Blastmage effect for 5 bolted on (that doesn’t hit mechs) is a strong but fair card. Give it Rush, and it’s wildly undercosted.
The problematic mechanics in Hearthstone are, at their core, all mana-related right now. Dr. Boom undercosts most of your minions, CC lets you cast minions that by rights should cost 8 for 3 (twice!), Puzzle Box (often) and Zul’Jin provide way more than ten mana worth of removal and card draw, Magnetize gives anything with that ability Charge if a mech sticks (compare to a 5/2 neutral Charge for 6!), Luna’s lets you discount all your minions by up to 9 for the rest of the game, and so on.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with mana cheats like that (that’s often the whole point of synergies). The problem is the magnitude and the limits on availability, which force the meta down predictable lines. If you want an unstable, shifting meta that does not go stale, one necessary condition is that aggro has to be able to punish greed. It really is that simple.
2 Likes
Just rotate brawl and watch the magic happen.
I’d rather see warrior hit hard with nerfs than to prop up Mechathun win conditions.
Warrior dr boom needs to have hero power changed to only give mechs rush that u discover from hero power.
In ideal world.
Note that combo usualy anihilite control decks too. So…
Once again I will hate on Kibler, because why not?
Here is another very intelligent explanation of how the deck is actually working and why it’s crushing other decks, rather than an opinion based piece with no facts.
Notice how the problem starts at turn 1. Why would you focus on nerfing Boom when the game was lost by turn 5?
1 Like
I am also not a fan of the idea of nerfing Boom, but to be clear the full picture is a bit more complicated, as Firebat recognizes. Dr. Boom providing such incredible late game value allows Control warrior to focus heavily on shoring up its matches against aggro and midrange while relying on Boom for the Control mirror.
In other words, part of the reason the problem starts on turn 1 and the game can be over on 5 is because of Boom. I still don’t think Boom is the best target (except maybe the Rush mechanic) but it isn’t as simple as thinking the only games Dr. Boom wins are the ones where he is played.
2 Likes
Nerfing Brawl isn’t going to fix the issue. I replaced brawl with plague of wrath and it has been working fine.
I agree that Dr Boom mad genius generates insane value and allows warrior effective removal tools against most threats, but that is only when the card is played on curve, between turn 7-12. So a simple solution would be raising the mana cost of the card, instead of removing the rush effect.
So, the video says:
“If you want to beat Warrior play whatever’s good against Warrior”.
Oh, jeesh, thanks.
Play Hunter. Yeah, everyone enjoys playing muertefledging Hunter. Or Quest Paladin which could actually be funnier.
“Bring back Combo”; the fun and interactive experience everyone and their muertes complained about until RoS hit? I’d rather play fledging Midrange! Whatever happened to Midrange having an edge over Control?
Shaman! How do I beat Ctrl Warrior as a Shaman? Refining Quest? In all seriousness, yeah, I tried Highlander Shaman Quest as the value is there but it might not be the way; lists in general can be refined to appear in the game more often, with better matchups to Aggro and forcing Warrior to change up their lists; except one problem with turning to lategame builds: all they need is some GOOD or even half decent delivery drone RNG and you wasted 30 mins. That is ALL I have been complaining about since the beginning: Delivery Drone and its lategame attrition issue, coupled with Elysiana; enough with Minion-hand-generating Hero Powers! 1/5 chances! It’s the Animal Companion’s Huffer trend Barnabusludge! “It’s always the Delivery Drone!”
Quest Druid fails miserably against Warrior unless it packs some specific comboes; which can work, yeah. Like 4 Chef Nomi plays or 4 Malygos.
Then there is Mage’s problem which was not addressed; Luna’s highrolls, Mt Giant, this is all still from RoS. One would speculate issues are getting addressed, similarly to how they mur-addressed Rogue last expansion.