But all those are rogue’s class identity. Rogue is a class defined by high APM turns. This includes very high amounts of draw, mana discount, bounce effects, etc. It’s just what rogue is designed to do. I don’t think it’s a favoritism thing, it’s a design space that also just happens to be quite effective and sometimes just plain broken.
Draw isn’t part of mage’s identity, they have discover and resource generation instead. Which can often be even better than draw because you can find answers to questions you otherwise wouldn’t have answers for. I agree mage really needs better draw than what it has now but the fact it hasn’t been doing great is just because they haven’t had many great ideas in this design space for some time. I think just saying designers hate mage is a bit of an oxymoron. The Titans cards they got were so good they have been top of the meta multiple times and even saw a few nerfs.
They have been sticking to class identity much more strictly as off late actually and I think that is a good thing. Mage can do very well with less draw, I’d wait and see what they have in store for them.
I wonder what callback legendary mage will have. I don’t think it’s Medivh is it?
this would be great, if it weren’t always RNG dictated.
I guarantee that if Rogue were forced to build every single deck around RNG, that it’s players would pitch a fit of biblical proportions
Rogue gets pampered with the best draw cards in the game, as well as the best cost reductions, and mana cheat, and the proof of that is clear in Wild.
There is practically no deck Rogue cannot run and at least be competitive.
Mine rogue, miracle rogue, pirate rogue, thief rogue, heck, even crystal core rogue.
If designers were as impartial as others claim, then all classes would have such diversity.
They don’t. I can only speak with any real knowledge for mage, but it has had every single deck it ever had nerfed in some critical way, with the sole exception of Quest mage.
In other words: RNG solo play.
To me mages identity has been OTK… Freeze mage, mozaki mage, atonidas mage, sif mage. I’m probably forgetting others but they’ve pretty consistently had a deck over the years that did the damage from hand = opponent 0.
Its a pretty 1 dimensional and boring game plan so its nice to have something like mech/elemental mage as something else to do. Casino mage has also been a somewhat identity and and one that I wish they would just forget.
As far as standard draw goes stargazing, arcane intellect, wisdom… Mage has plenty of draw, especially when adding in some neutral minions…its just theres nothing really to draw to.
As far as rogue goes this set seems pretty mediocre. It would have been really good if this was the set released after titans. I doubt you could even make a 15 card pirate deck in standard when the rotation hits. Some of the cards will go well in excavate rogue though… Bouncing that 3/3 charge 4 or 5 times… replaying some of the better 1 cost generated cards
Mage has plenty of crummy draw compared to rogue. FTFY.
I want you to show me the OTK deck, other than Quest, that mage can play in Wild.
I also want to see the elemental deck in standard that is really good, 'cause I guarantee there isn’t one in Wild.
Like I said: Rogue already has at least 4 decks that are more than playable in Wild, and these cards just add to that.
Sorry I’m not enough of a masochist to subject myself to whatever wild is these days so I cannot answer your question. You say that mage has a quest OTK deck… I mean I’m sure in the past there were other options in wild.
Elemental mage isn’t good in standard right now… but its nice that there is the potential for the option rather than being stuck playing sif/casino mage. I remember in GVG I think it was mech mage was pretty powerful… That was what 6 years ago now though.
Yeah, in the days when actual HS creators were still responsible for card design, instead of streamers who have no idea how to design a game for everyone, that we are stuck with now.
I don’t believe team 5 has a single creator left in their ranks.
At any rate: these cards only further prove that team 5 loves rogue,
to the point that things they have said in the past no longer matter when it’s their pet classes.
Those edicts were clearly only for the classes they dislike.
Mage is pretty good at the moment and I run stargazing into wisdom which I hit consistently and often for two mana 5 card draw cause wisdom counts as one of those draws.
I ran mage to legend on my main this month. So it is good and has decent tempo, true some of it is rng but not all.
Good to know. I haven’t played it. I am sick of rng,
I am going to have to spend all of my time trying to tech against
Fifty shades of Rogue in Wild, just like always.
I have been having a look at what can be cooked with the new rogue cards + core and I am quite sure rogue is going to be quite busted right of the gate, here’s a deck I have cooked:
0 Preparation x2
0 Shadowstep x2
1 Breakdance x2
1 Deadly Poison x2
1 Dig For Treasure x2
1 Southsea Deckhand x2
1 Valeera’s Gift x2
2 Quick Pick x2
2 Toy Boat x2
3 Bargain Bin Buccaneer x2
3 Raiding Party x2
3 The Crystal Cove x2
4 Sonya Waterdancer
4 Watercannon x2
5 Sandbox Scoundrel x2
6 Shoplifter Goldbeard
I put it together quite effortlessly and this looks solid as hell. Goldbeard is ez to cheat out with Sandbox Scoundrel miniature + Sonya and from there if you tap location and hit with Watercannon you have 2 4/4s attacking just from that; even more if you bounce the mini and keep playing pirates for free. Only that is a menace but if you add up Sonya giving you up to +16 weapon attack in one turn with Deadly poisons… Quick pick might even be too greedy since you can just go with Watercannons.
I actually think this stuff is serious nerf material.
Edit: on second look Breakdance may be unnecessary. Could add something else to spend mana in the earlier game. But something along these lines is probably meta.
Edit 2: also prep actually is bad here. I got so used to adding prep as a default but there’s only 1 spell over 2 mana in this list and cheating it isn’t that crucial.
I will refine this list further pre-release and will definitely play this day 1
I’m predicting Sandbox Scoundrel gets nerfed. I don’t see how it doesn’t. The mini gives you a 1 mana discount for 3 which can be shadow stepped and danced back and just create a massive combo for mana cheating like we’ve never seen.
Combo in the fact that Sonya can double that, and the new Legendary minion later can add them all back to your hand for an even bigger mana cheating turn.
It’s honestly pretty scary. As soon as Rogue gets to play Sandbox Scoundrel it’s going to be a race to the finish.
Also forgot about 1 more new neutral Pirate from Whizbang! A more polished list would be:
0 Shadowstep x2
1 Breakdance x2
1 Deadly Poison x2
1 Dig For Treasure x2
1 Southsea Deckhand x2
1 Treasure Distributor x2
1 Valeera’s Gift x2
2 Quick Pick x2
2 Toy Boat x2
3 Bargain Bin Buccaneer x2
3 Raiding Party x2
3 The Crystal Cove x2
4 Sonya Waterdancer
4 Watercannon x2
5 Sandbox Scoundrel x2
6 Shoplifter Goldbeard
I still think Breakdance might be a cut since I’d be worried of drawing bad early game and not be able to do anything to stay alive. But as a general idea this does the job.
Luckily I feel that’s a bit of a tricky setup for rogue. You need to play something over 5 mana while holding clown, then play clown, then play something over 1 mana, then play the mini, then shadowstep it, then play something over 0 mana, then play the mini… etc. I think the card doesn’t change like corrupted did, so you need to fulfill its condition every time.
For a strictly ‘burn rogue’ deck I dont think you’d even run anything 6 mana to corrupt it. Just play it for the mini and go from there.
Playing sonya on the burn turn would already satisfy the condition for the original minis. Then you can play some 1 mana thing once you get the 0 mana ones and you’re at 7 mana deal 16 already. Unfortunately the minis + sonya take up board so you’re combo is probably limited to 26-29 damage without shadowstep but can get over 30 if you equip a weapon with over 1 attack.
(Sonya, 4x minis, 4x deadly poisons = 16 +8 for 8 mana then 2 mana could go to either 1 2/1 charge or an evis)
Obviously it requires the setup of having played 2 5 mana clowns, having sonya, and having 2 deadly poisons. I’m not sure how well the rogue defensive package will be but the damage theory is there. Can probably play some coin generators to help speed things up and that minion targeted draw definitely helps.
It doesnt seem much different to what is necessary for the nature shaman OTK now as far as combo piece assembly. Still against the 10000 warriors that you will face the deck probably never gets there as the damage cap is pretty low for an otk deck but it will be fun to try
I was hoping they would bury the Pirate thing. I guess Rogue was a pirate all this time. They done well restoring the mechanics but the Rogue cards are wrongly themed.
Neutral cards are great btw
All I have gathered from this thread is that Jaina is a better Rogue than Valeera is. Only Jaina can turn a thread about ROGUE cards into a discussion about Mage.
