Eyestalk of cthun

I have never seen such a broken card before. 4 mana. Most of the time you do not need CTHUN at all with this tentacle.

This is beyond broken!

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Black knight, spell breakers, big game hunter, and a lot more.

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Need to run BGH. It was ran in every tournament and legend deck during the times all these sets were active, Eyestalk just gives another reason to do so.

But yes, the card is insane.

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This card is pretty awesome, but it’s only broken because it has no efficient Neutral counter (or efficient counter in each and all classes) for it being such an efficient Neutral card. Good take. :slight_smile: :+1:

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Eh? In what world? In the one of the Jade Rogue or Discard Warlock? I don’t think so.

Eh?

BGH and TBK have already been mentioned here.

Well, I mean like, having an understated card just to counter an overstated card is the definition of imbalance, is it not?

(You have to have that exact card when they have their exact card while also playing towards your win condition to potentially win the game.)

Nah you need C’thun. Its like the nuke with a mini gun.

That’s the problem with the so-called ‘hate cards’ in general — well, one of the problems, but they’ve been doing it for years anyway.

Having something like a BGH or equivalent seems more or less necessary in this ‘meta’ anyway, so this’d be just another target for it.

The “necessary” actions a player should have while playing a game is to play out of their own volition to try to have fun, isn’t it? Doesn’t this make the “necessary” actions to craft, and/or be forced to play, and/or follow a trend of counter play?

‘Necessary’ — for a decent win rate, that is.

That’s the big design problem of such games, where you’ve gotta be a ‘metagame hussy’ in order to be successful, by the way.

If you want to play for fun you can play whatever cards you like however you want. That does not mean you are entitled to win. If you want to WIN you play the meta. Sometimes you cannot have both without one giving a little to the other. Thus you need to compromise a bit in deck build to prepare for the meta.

(Okay, play me as the entitled karen card, or just have the trap set just in case. :roll_eyes: )

I’m just saying that the polarized intentions of counter play are so dominant of the alpha and beta type outlook on masculinity that it becomes nothing but toxicity. Of Course, play to win for the meta. Play what’s necessary to win for the meta. Compromise. Play against the tide to ride over it. But when it comes to counter play because of overpowered cards, the overpowered cards are just that = OVERPOWERED. Do you really think there is suppose to be such little diversity that we just resort to only a few top tier “meta” decks? The point is the trends are set and they are enforced. The creative integrity of making your own creation to the top is not seen in Hearthstone anymore. It’s a thing of the past. Like someone else said, it’s not so much about making your deck anymore, it’s about making the plays with your deck made for you.

Black knight is a must have against it and warrior.

Playing the meta is as old as the CCG. Yes, you very much can make your own decks and play them in the meta and contrary to popular belief make legend. I do it all the time and so do MANY other players on this forum. That doesn’t mean i won’t put certain cars in my deck knowing they will help me with a majority of the net decks. In fact i would be foolish not to exploit those players.

I do not think you are being a “Karen”. I was merely pointing out that you must accept that some cards need to be played if you want to “win more”. If you want to play what you want by all means do so. Just be realistic and understand playing with lower probability winning cards will lead to more loses.

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Your word is a point of why this game was never good considering:

Gadgetzan was made purely for exploits. So was Cult Master, Starving Buzzard, to a lesser extent - Mana Wyrm, Undertaker. Why are there some cards that exploit to fundamentally break the game in one way or another, but some cards that make no impact nor have any value in the game whatsoever and may never have value nor impact years from now? Why would this game even be a CCG if you collect cards that have no value nor impact at all, ever? The CCG aspect could use some work. Otherwise, it’s like we are just collecting grains of sand at a beach or something. :face_with_diagonal_mouth: Thanks.

BGH is core and legacy at the same time
because of this you can use the core one on your twist deck no need to craft

You misunderstand the context of exploit in the post. When i say exploit i mean that the net decks take a copy of a deck online and known card for card. This gives you the flexibility when a meta is made up of a large portion of those types of decks to exploit a weakness in the deck and beat it.

An example is currently that we have multiple greedy control decks that are top tier. They will regularly Mulligan for their best late game card in deck. This has led to BDK coming back into the meta because they can play multiple cards that hunt those card sin hand to remove them, Dirty Rat, Theotar and Patchwerk. Warlock has a great trump to greed like this in Immolation so you see it in Warlock decks or at least a copy in ETC.

I’m not sure what to tell you about the CCG structure as it has been an outdated thing for a while but still finds life to be relevant. The LCG design is much more consumer friendly.

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I’m not sure what you mean by BDK, nor LCG, nor ETC; nor do I know what Theotar or Immolation are, but don’t you think I grasped the general context of “exploit” for a broader definition and understanding than just your context for the sake of betterment?

Do you really think that to

is a good way for everyone to play who wants to win (continually) in this game? Seems like grasping for straws or something like that.

You’ve pinpointed one of the issues with balancing the meta, which I’ve already mentioned above: from the very beginning, instead of fixing ‘broken’ cards, archetypes, mechanics, interactions and so on, they’d ‘release’ these so-called ‘hate cards’, supposed to counter them specifically. I’ve always been against this design approach, to be honest.

Nothing personal, but that’s what I referred to as being a ‘metagame hussy’ above, or, more precisely, bad game design in which being one is the winning strategy.

An extreme example of that would be a game of rock, paper and scissors. You know somehow (with some information from outside of the game, which is literally the definition of the ‘metagame’, or shortened to ‘meta’, as opposed to what some people assume) that ‘everyone’ is playing rock, so you go with paper instead. In time, the popularity of paper rises, so some ‘clever’ players switch to scissors. One more iteration, and ‘everyone’ is playing rock once again. There are people who fancy themselves as experts, ‘meta analysts’, as they’d put it, writing ‘meta reviews’, as if it were some kind of science — and they’ve even invented a term for what’s described here: ‘meta cycles’.

The sad truth hidden behind these big words, however, is that the gameplay itself is more or less meaningless, as are a player’s skill or decisions in the game, and the most ‘successful’ one is the most flexible — or lucky — ‘meta-hore’ who happens to ride this tide just ahead of yet another wave crest, so to speak. This is indicative of a bad design — just bad and unfun, even if it’s perfectly balanced, as ‘rock-paper-scissors’ are, mind you, which isn’t even always the case.

The opposite pole would be chess. Sure, you can use some metagame information, e.g. what kinds of positions or openings your opponent prefers or plays best, to prepare for a match, but generally, the outcome of any game is mostly determined but what each of the two players does at the board and their decisions during the game, not by what the bulk of other players prefer to do. I think this could be achieved by good design, the aforementioned ‘hate cards’ being a typical counterexample of it, with a decent level of strategic depth and diversity of playable archetypes, decks, cards and so on. The closer you are to this, the more you’ll realise that every competitive deck that you’d face could be an ‘off-meta’ deck, at least ideally.

Sure, it’s easier to just cobble up a few obvious deck archetypes for a rock-paper-scissors-like scheme (insert your ‘aggro’, ‘control’, ‘combo’ or ‘midrange’ instead, and here you are) for a semblance of a ‘diverse and balanced meta’, but it’s less fun, although it’s probably cheaper to make and more profitable to sell.

PS One more thing: instead of refining a game, like chess has been, resulting in a masterpice of game design, much appreciated over centuries, it’s apparently more advantageous for them to appease the false idol of 'nEw CoNtEnT’ :crazy_face: and keep selling their junk at regular intervals. See also this on the subject (yeah, repeating myself again), including why this fetish is not always even good for a game, Chess 960 being a prime example.

Despite being such a masterpiece, chess is so hard to monetise, yes, there’s that.

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Nah, BGH saw no play since it was nerfed in Old Gods/when formats were introduced. Staple inclusion before that though. You are clearly misremembering.