Diluted card pool?

Multiplayer Discussion
62

Because it is? 8% is a tiny number. Like, we’re really back to the fact that you specifically do not want the new class cards.

If you’re not relying on pack pulls then the increase matters even less. You’re reliant on dust.

I’m not being a Blizzard apologist, I am specifically arguing that adding classes doesn’t make the already bad dust economy worse by any significant measure. When you have so many legitimate things to complain about; why construe that them adding content and classes to the game is a bad thing.

Oh and in the case of Demon Hunter, since that got brought up. The rewards track came out since then and the rewards track gives out 3 free legendaries on the free track.

63

You don’t see a pattern of incrementalism here? Because I do.

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64

… No one is talking about dust, though. We are talking about packs of cards needed, which is only a tangent to the broken dust economy.

And yet here I am, looking back through all the standard expansions knowing that I am missing stacks and stacks and stacks of legendary and epic cards, more in the expansions after DH than before.

And nothing about the legendary cards does anything about the Epics. Oh, and they also stuck a bunch of BS, non-disenchantable cards on the reward track, too. Should I thank them for all the duplicate golden cards I can’t use either?

Seriously, do you thank people for kicking you, too?

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65

Not from adding Death Knights. I’d have a problem with the miniset if you couldn’t buy it with gold (and I’d have a problem with Path of Arthas for the same reason). But you can use gold, and every miniset has had at least one meta legendary.

You definitely end up with less dust that way, but you also get more legendaries + epics guaranteed.

So it’s really a question of guaranteed value vs. potentially higher value (but potentially lower as well).

I mean the two are basically one and the same. The more packs you get, the more dust you get. I could use the term “card economy” I guess. Adding classes doesn’t make the card collection economy significantly worse and each pack is still worth the same amount of dust on average.

The only way I can see it is if you just don’t want new class cards. Which is… specific to people who don’t want new classes.

I actually don’t think there’s any legendaries in MotLK I’d outright not want at all.

I can’t really speak to your personal experience. I definitely have more cards now than I used to, while spending less money. And more cards that I really want for sure.

I wish I could swap more of the cards I don’t want for ones I do, without having to rely on the crummy returns I get from dusting cards that might become more fun/playable in the future.

The main thing is definitely epics. And it always has been. I’ve always found weird is it feels like I pull just as many epics as legendaries, but they’re supposed to be 4x as common. Maybe that gets thrown off by the pity timer for legendaries but it’s always been odd.

66

Only if the cards are duplicates… it takes more packs to get to the point where dust becomes a thing, which is a clear cost increase because more packs are needed.

so what you’re saying is a 10-15% increase in costs is fine. Having added two classes with no economic changes, this is what they have done.

Price hikes of an already too expensive game seems bad, but if you like to just burn time or money, be my guest.

I mean, duh.

Try to do your calculations again for the epics but double all the numbers because you usually want two copies of a give epic to run it in a deck.

Adding classes clearly and without question dillutes the pool of cards.

It does this, making it more expensive to earn the collection.

The only debate is if you think it’s acceptable or not.

I don’t.

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67

all right here’s my thoughts…

sucks they didn’t give more resources on rewards track…not unexpected though.

according to scrotes the increase is negligible, and looking at the numbers it seems he’s right. the caveat being ftp players. which…

have you considered that the signature cards have their own pity timer and don’t interfere with the legendary pity timer? this means there is another way for ftp players to get legendaries. since all the signature variants that can be pulled in this x-pac are legendary. this may not always remain the case, but for this x-pac you have a better chance of getting more legends in pack openings.

at worst the new class card increase seems a lateral change. at best might be better in the long run.

runestones still suck, arthas miniset sucks, and the game is too expensive.

that’s what i got. good gaming to you all!!

p.s. ty scrotes for the data, it helped me stay lazy. lol

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68

By about… 2%. Not even. It’s 64 packs on average to get all the rares to like 68 or something. Per class, sure, but also unless you’re not doing dailies/weeklies, or you’re spending your gold on other things, 60-70 packs is not very many in an expac cycle.

No because that’s not the increase. The increase 0.2% for legendaries. Unless you wanna get a full collection as an F2P, which has never been possible at all.

Again, they added the reward track since then. Which does give 3 free legendaries to DHs extra 2. Epics are absolutely a gold/dust sink, but don’t increase the cost either unless you want every epic.

Epics are bad, but epics are hard to calculate because you do get more of them in packs, but you need twice as many (in theory), but they cost 1/2 as much to craft.

69

THis is flat wrong.

Your math sucks.

And you are also ignoring how the pity timer of 40 packs plays into this.

Just getting things you WANT is the point, and every time they add new classes you have less chance to get ANYTHING you can use from the epics and legendaries and have to buy more packs to start getting duplicates.

Omg, you need to stop smoking the blizzard koolaid.

Every time I add one more card to a group the chance to find any individual card changes.

Stop saying one class because they have added two.

And the odds of getting poor epics that are mismatched are super high. The odds of getting the two or three epics you actually want are super, super low.

Every time they add cards to the pool, this chance continues to plummet.

Your excuses don’t hold water.

Adding classes makes the game cost more for everyone OR reduces your ability to get the cards you want to play.

It doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to see it becuase it’s as plain as the nose on one’s face.

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70

Would you like to see your monthly paycheck reduced by 8%? It’s a tiny number after all.

Multiply it by 12 and suddenly you are working 12 months to get what you used to earn in 11.
Tiny number indeed

Follow my logic.

New player: 0 dust, 0 gold. You can farm gold but not dust.

Since the only way to get dust is destroying cards for a small return, it’s not efficient.

Idea: I’ll play what the game offers me.

After some years, I managed to gain some dust from nerfs and hall of fame, while also getting a good collection for some classes which I liked.
I also invested dust in some of these classes which I liked.
I also have some cards (epic, legendaries) for other classes which I don’t play, due to limited resources (druid) or disliking the playstyle (dh).

News: they are adding a new class, which means more epics and legendaries to collect.

I would like to play druid, but I am lacking cards amd I don’t have dust for every class, so I leave it to RNG from packs.
Now, with DK, you are telling me that I should use my dust to craft the cards I want?

I AM ALREADY DOING THAT!!!
I am not RNG god who finds everything I want in packs, I usually craft 3 legendaries per expansion.
Now, if I am lucky, I can find other 3 I like from classes I play. If I am very very lucky I may also end up with extra dust to use for a forgotten class (druid).

The fact there are now more legendaries to find only means I won’t be playing druid anytime soon.
I would really like to play with 20 mana, but guff alone doesn’t make a good druid deck.
Why would I want to invest in DK when there are already classes I would like to play but I can’t?
I don’t dust wild cards (I actually craft them as well), so I don’t have a lot of it, but I have to think wisely where I use it.

(It was a long explanation, but since you seem to not understand why an extra class for a f2p isn’t necessarily a good news I wanted to write the whole story. I hope my vision is more clear)

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71

Simple solution that solves everything:

they add the first and second round of core class cards FOR FREE like they did for the demon hunter.

BOOM! Problem solved, hire me now for lead dev, and I can keep at least 90% of real players* happy.

*those who act as spokespersons or promoters for the company and current devs are not counted in this figure for obvious reasons.

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72

I get why it feels bad but its still just not mathematically significant. Your odds of pulling druid legendaries went down by SUCH a small amount.

In general. The chances of pulling a specific card are so minute if you want a specific card you need to craft it. That was true before.

If you want a better way to get specific cards they need to either add a new system (like the swap one I suggested) or improve the returns on disenchanting.

Point is they’d have to add more than 1 class to impact your chances at pulling cards you want. The crafting system is trash and its about the same amount of trash whether theres 23 cards to collect or 25.

73

Pay 8% more taxes.
Take an 8% pay cut.
lose 8% of your vision.

8% is not mathematically insignificant to anyone who hasnt lost at least 8% of their mental faculty.

5 Likes
74

You don’t understand what I am saying or you pretend to not understand it, I’ll try one last time.

I would like to find cards from 6 classes + neutrals: that’s 7/11 factions.
Now they are adding a new faction: it’s 7/12.

If I find a DK legendary, it is useless for me. If instead I would have found a legendary from one of the 7 factions I prefer, it would have been probably a good find.

For every DK legendary I will find, I will craft one less card for a class that I may start playing (druid) because I will miss a card for a class that I already play (one of the 7).

“Mathematically it’s irrelevant”, it isn’t.
I can go to my collection and count every DH legendary I have: I can tell you they are at least 6; i would like to reroll them into other random legendaries, because turning useless cards for me into good ones with a 7/11 chance is better.
Is 7/11 a low probability as well? It’s more than 50%

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75

It’s not 8%. It’s an 8% total combined chance for every legendary in the game. It’s 0.3% lower for each legendary card. So if I really want Rommath, adding DK legendaries makes me barely less likely to pull him.

Losing 8% of your income or something tangible is not the same as an 8% chance of something. You are finding Death Knight legendaries 7.4% more often (because the chance before was 0), but everything else goes down relatively. It’s split.

That’s a 7% difference, which is still not very big in terms of probability. And this is an absurdly specific circumstance anyway. Your chances before are 7/10, now they’re over 6/10 (closer to 6.5). I don’t think that’s particularly significant.

All your DK legendaries are about as likely to have been another class you don’t want a legendary from.

76

Its an 8% increase across ALL rarities. You are completely dense and the type of person Blizzard preys on when making changes like this.

Enjoy paying 8% more each year, because that is exactly what you are opening the door to with your attitude towards it.

“but its only 8%” is an absolutely blind comment. Its 8% without any compensation. If they increased the drop rates of epics & legendaries by 8% as well then MAYBE your argument would hold, but they havent/wont.

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77

Okay. So because the odds of pulling a legendary are so low, and the odds of pulling a Death Knight legendary are even lower, adding it to a pool of other things means nothing else’s chances go up much because they all kinda share the brunt of it. Adding 2 cards increases the total card pool (by a little) but the only way, in which increasing the total card pool by 8% would matter is if you got every single card. Then it’d be an 8% cost increase to the set, yes. But I can’t say at least I’ve ever gotten a total set.

Like look, I think the game should be more affordable, I think it’s too expensive, I certainly thought it was way too expensive prior to the rewards track and weekly quests but introducing a new class doesn’t increase the cost much when the whole game is built around probability pulls and crafting.

78

You really are stupid. Increasing the legendary count by 8% reduce your odds of pulling the one you want by 8%. That means another 20 packs, on average, to have another chance at opening one you do want at a (still) reduced likelyhood.

Your math skills are worse than that of an elementary student. 8% increase in options is NOT negligible on a 0.5-1% chance of opening.

Let me guess, you will believe that because you have a higher set completion ratio than previously, due to commons and rares, you will believe it a success, despite the fact that for a full set, you need MORE packs due to epics & legendaries.

You are exactly the type of gullible person Blizzard is preying on. And dont forget they are also charging for DK’s core set cards, instead of giving them for free like they did with DH.

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79

Why are you focusing on one specific legendary?
If someone wants only 1 legendary per expansion, then they may as well duat everything and crafting it.

Are you suggesting people only buy packs to find 1 and only 1 specific legendary?

I am telling you I play 7/11 factions.
That’s 3 neutrals + 12 legendaries.
It’s a total of 15/23 potential good ones. Now it’s going to be 15/25.

If you still think it’s irrelevant, I think you are either neglecting the problem or you just don’t want to change your mind.
In any case, I am fine with what you think, even if it’s completely wrong mathematically and conceptually

At the end of the day, if you are increasing something by 7.4% (it’s actually more than 8 but whatever), you are also decreasing something by the same number

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80

Like I said elsewhere: It feels like incrementalism.
Does it stop with DK, I wonder?
Pretty sure Team 5 will add more classes if they think those cards will sell.

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81

So much this. If the rollout of DK had this much predatory monetization (which is saying something in the last three months where is has been thrown out by this team and company like they were a sire who got fed 1000 minions before being played), I hate to see what they will do with Monk.

And I was really looking forward to Chen and Li Li.

actiblizz law of gaming: If there is something that wasn’t broken, they will find a way to muck it up.

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