The new Kil’Jaeden card replaces your deck with an “endless” portal of Demons. I came across this video from NoHands in which his Decktracker is able to identify what Demons are in the portal. Skip to 11:15 where he plays Kil’Jaeden.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcT8Uy8OqQg
A decktracker should not be able to do this. The rule of thumb for support scripts in Hearthstone is that they are legal as long as they don’t offer any additional information that a player can track with pencil and paper. There’s no way for a player without a decktracker to know what Demons are in his portal. That doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of the add-on guidelines.
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It does seem strange.
Reminds me of the time when the opponent could “see” which part of C’thun The Shattered someone drew, though this is just your own cards.
At least I presume, I did not notice if my tracker populated opponent’s “deck” when they play the new Kil’.
If the game went so long and one would spend all their cards, would it just repopulate with new 30 demon-cards?
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You can see the answer to that question from the video → as soon as a demon gets drawn, another one fills their space, so the deck always has 30 cards in it.
I’m struggling to see which unfair advantage this gives, as we can all just google “standard demon pool” and see the same list. It’s just a randomly generated 30 demons list which gets updated as soon as one gets drawn, which means that it’s entirely random which demon you’re going to draw anyway.
I can imagine a few fringe cases which aren’t likely to happen (but if enough games are played, probably will) in which you still have a tutor card for some big demon and once that demon is shown on your tracker, you can use the tutor card to bring it out. But that’s about it.
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I’m not sure either. But it’s clearly not in the spirit of “whatever a player can do with pencil and paper”… even if the potential advantage might be some extremely unlikely fringe case. I don’t even know if tutoring would work on the portal.
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the deck has only 30 minions
standard has 48 demons …think for a bit its ahuge advantage
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Because players are Nostradamus and can guess which the next card out of 30 will be and “plan” their next turn with cards that don’t match anyways because they’re all randomly generated and not pre-constructed?
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there is no guess didnt you read
the deck tracker tells you exactly which demons are in your deck!
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And? You still don’t know which one you’ll draw next turn. So there’s no advantage.
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cant beleive you are pretending n knowing if your deck has any
taunt
outcast
rush
or
patches
demons
doesnt give you any advantages
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Okay, let’s say you know there’s a demon in your deck that has taunt.
Your chances to draw him are 1:29.
That means the chance that you’re not going to draw him is 29x higher than doing so.
So what you gonna do? Play something in advance that only works when you’re winning the lottery, and if you’re not drawing him, you’re auto-conceding?
What exactly is your advantage here?
Your opponent can see his own deck too. Where’s your bonus advantage?
There are two arguments being conflated here.
- Advantage
- “Can I do it with Pen-and-Paper”
Point 1 is immutably True; deck trackers allow you to save time and processing power (your brain’s, not the computer’s). BIG advantage and that’s honestly why people use them. That’s never going to change. That’s just a simple fact, end of discussion on that front.
Point 2 is not violated by having deck trackers overlay the list of 30 potential cards; you can research EXACTLY which cards are allowed ahead of time and print it out yourself, pen-and-paper style.
The only thing the deck tracker is doing, is what it has always done: save you time and brainpower, as per Point 1. There’s nothing sneaky or weird, here. It’s doing what it has always done.
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oh you are trolling…telling me knowng when your deck has a rush minion like this one ready for lethal next turn
so you can play this
and go for lethal next turn
or knowing youll get this
if you play this
to bounce a taunt
anyone claiming this isnt and advantage has to be trolling
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Only because you fail to understand something, it doesn’t automatically mean others must be “trolling”. This is the mindset of an immature kid, you can do better.
Okay, this is basic stuff. Your DH opponent who included both cards right from the start can as well see in his decktracker that he has the Inquisitor in his deck and draw it with Rush the Stage.
So I’m asking you again, where is your advantage over your opponent who can do the same?
People, please. Don’t make me tap the sign again:
you too? im ussed to that other guy trolling
but you too?
unless you can tell me
how can you check your portal deck contents
and
which demon replaces each demon after you draw it
without a deck tracker
you are trolling too because you canclearly see in the video after he draws that demon a copy of malefic rook replaced it and the deck tracker will always tell the player the moment a useful minion gets added tot he deck
so if you arent trolling…why you call it “potential”?
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deck trackers have always been able to cheat, they normally fix the cheating part, but if you made your own deck tracker you can see most of the cards in both players hands
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The same way you know there are only 48 possible draws for it to pull from. Furthermore, it’s been explained in here how the card functions:
You get 30 cards out of a pool of 48, perpetually refreshing at random every time one is drawn. It’s very simple, very easy to understand, and very useless to know beyond very basic tactical analysis. “Well, if I get lucky and draw the taunt one” is not high-level play that you can manipulate to your advantage. That’s just literal guesswork.
I’d be more upset, were I you Boreas, about how deck trackers show all the potential relevant secrets that you might have played when you cast one. THAT is useful information to know (but still doesn’t violate the pen-and-paper rule).
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I played a steamcleaner on a kil’jaeden portal and only about a dozen cards got pulled out. Not sure if it being a 30 card deck is accurate. Cards kept coming after, so i am guessing they are generated on the fly.
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You can’t use steamcleaner on it because the portal is “endless.”
Everytime one comes out it shuffles another card into the portal.
I would assume steam cleaner would only remove the demons put into the portal after the initial portal was played… the newly shuffled for each card drawn since the portal was created.
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This is true. 3rd party software has always run the risk of having the CAPACITY to potentially reveal more than it should and so topics like this are actually healthy and worthwhile discussions. We need to keep these tools honest. That requires open discussion.
That said, I’m betting it’s more just that the deck trackers we have currently, aren’t equipped to handle “infinite random decks” so it just sort of goes “okay, here’s the 30 that seem to be there right now” and just kind of refreshes it as it needs to. Technically, for all intents and purposes, since it’s RANDOM EVERY TIME, the deck list is pointless to take literally at that point. It’s just showing potential, not actual.