I want to see the official answer: the DT is legal or illegal. Clause 4 of part C of the license agreement interprets such programs “illegal until explicitly approved.” Please do not send me to reddit and not cite “pen and note” as an example, since this is not an answer (tracker functionality are more than a pen and notebook btw). Thanks. <=
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ben brode himself (iirc) said deck tracker was fine since it do the same thing as pen and paper
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Sorry, you can’t read or comprehend what are you read? I asked not to use this argument, it’s ridiculous. Ben Brode did not explicitly authorize the use of this, it is completely unlike the “official permission” of third-party software. A tweet from a long-quit employee six years ago? Pen+paper vs smart code? Unbelievable.
Try to write down all the data it gives.
I am want to see the answer of GM. I want
to see official position without double interpretations. TY <=
Edit:
Bluepost, tweet, reddit. All of them. It is so Hard? “DT is legal”. It is 3 words only and official permission. I see only C. 4 rule and rediculous tweet BB now.
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on the hearthstone grandmaster wiki page there is a link about deck tracker usage during tournaments. I do understand this is for tournaments, it is for official hearthstone tournaments hosted by blizzard, it would be weird for them to only allow it during tournaments and not any match for the regular players.
it might not be a direct confirmation, it is the closest i could find atm
https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Hearthstone_Grandmasters#cite_note-36
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/page_media/px/PXYB9IHSRQLF1564507343607.pdf#page=19
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I agree about Deck Tracker. It definitely does not duplicate what you can do on pen and paper. Otherwise, deck tracker would be a digital pen and digital paper to write, like a notepad.
Interesting enough, there are stipulations for using the deck tracker in Tournaments. Here is one of them:
…can use deck tracker so long as…
“Use of the Deck Tracker complies with all of Blizzard’s Website Terms, which include but are not limited to the Blizzard End User License Agreement.”
Seems to be some kind of logical loop. User agreement states that such programs are considered illegal unless explicitly approved, yet the tournament rules point to the user agreement as a measure to discern whether the tracker complies with it. In this case, it seems it doesn’t comply with the user agreement IF it has never been explicitly approved by Blizzard. If they are explicitly approving its use for the tournament, why don’t they state it instead of pointing to this loop with the User Agreement? They’re dodging the liability so they may do whatever they please at the moment.
So… is Blizzard asking itself whether deck tracker is allowed??? It’s almost as if they’re saying it’s ok to use as long as they say it’s ok to use, but they’re not gonna say right now, but you can look at the user agreement and decide.
These are open ended rules so that Blizzard may do anything they want at any time.
So, I think pretty much it is allowed because Blizzard is aware of it and is not doing anything to stop its usage.
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the hearthstone director himself say that its fine and that not enough for you? sry, but then you are the problem.
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tbf, Ben Brode has left blizzard for 2 years already and that tweet itself is 6 years old, things could have changed since then
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Where? He said “app that duplicates what you can do with a pencil and paper already is fine”. The DT functionality does not match just pen and paper.
I can blind the opponent with a pen, which means a potential program that will make the opponent’s screen white is also legal. <=
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great that you admit to being a troll, point proven
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I emphasize the inconsistency of the argument. Reductio ad absurdum <=
Edit:
In our forums, we came to the same logical loop. <=
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And then he got fired.
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he left to start his own game studio. but translated by the forum trolls i guess that sounds close to “get fired”
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Who would ever expect from fired top manager to say “I was fired”? Of course they always say “I leave the place with salary counted in millions to start everything from scratch because I like troubles and uncertain future”. But do you know what? “People lie.” ©
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Deck Tracker is 100% Legal. I encourage EVERYONE to use it! I use it myself.
What is your issue the tracker?
It does not tell you what is in your opponents hand. It does not tell you what cards to play. It only Tracks the cards that have already been played by your opponent and yourself. In no way is this cheating and so what’s all the fuss about?
His issue, I think, is that (a) despite DT seemingly being noncompliant with the user agreement because Blizzard has never officially stated DT is permitted (although they clearly condone its use).
And I believe (b) it’s also that DT does far more efficiently what anyone can do with a writing utensil and paper. The claim that one can keep track of what DT keeps track of, on paper, is simply incorrect. DT provides players a significant advantage over any player not using it.
Please note that I am not anti-DT, personally. I believe a DT should be implemented into the game itself, so we’re not having to use third-party software to play better.
(Hey! Please, visit my topic concerning implementing filters and tweaks to the collection system!)
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HDT is pretty much mandatory. I can’t imagine playing HS without it and I can’t imagine anyone would do that.
It’s like playing poker without poker tracker.
Not trying to take a dump on you, but he is running his own game company now and developing a licensed marvel game. I don’t care if its gonna be good or not, but owning your own business will always be better than working for a chinese game developer company. Maybe you believe Mike Morhaime was fired too since he left the company and started his own studio as well?
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as does keeping track with pen and paper, deck tracker just lowers the ceiling needed to be able to efficiently keep track. in other card games where you cant track with pen and paper nor any other physical method it can take years to build up a strong enough mental tracking ability to make the same tracking as pen and paper at a competitive level.
there is the argument that since its a skilled learned by practice it shouldnt be allowed to use DT nor pen and paper since learning the skill should be rewarding, but at the same time allowing DT and pen and paper enables more players to try and play at a higher level.
for perspective i used to play YuGiOh at a pro level for several years, long ago tracking with pen and paper was allowed but was later banned because players tried to abuse the system (play cards specifically to check players hand, take your sweet time reading everything, then writing it down, then drag out time even more and so on to get an advantage in time procedures), so from there on you had to do all tracking mentally. it took me 2 years to fully master mental tracking and i know alot of players that after 8 years still cant do any mental tracking, those players have also never had any major success in tournaments.
so by simply allowing pen and paper, or an app that do the same thing, you lower the ceiling considerably for both newer and longtime players to take part and compete in larger tournaments.
The physical method inherently requires more time thus lowering the time the player has to make their play. This is called a disadvantage. And honestly, depending on the class and deck you’re up against, good luck writing all of that down while also playing. Or if you happen to play a deck like mentioned, where a surplus of cards are being held and played – all while keeping track of your opponents’ cards. With a pen and paper. On the other hand, DT does this for you automatically, thus saving you much time. Please, show me evidence in which anyone can, with a pen and paper, keep up with DT.
It’s very disingenuous to say DT is not an advantage when versus someone without DT.
But again, listen, I’m not against DT. I use it and so does everyone else. But currently, for example, you are at a disadvantage if you’re on mobile, say, against someone on PC with DT. Until we get a new DT on mobile. Crosses fingers.
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