A lot of people aren’t. If you say that you aren’t I believe you. The people that are upset usually say so.
While I tend to be very critical of everything terrible Bliz does, I am not as upset about this as some people are, as long as this is not a key legendary they are paywalling I can live with it. I guess you have a point, it should be craftable and given to early access guys for free because they paid up. But really, looking at the game as a whole, there is much worse things going on with monetisation than this.
yes until it gets released
So when does the card come out with its set for all? Im still unclear as to what the card and set in question are. I may have missed it from above but I’m just not getting how if its the next upcoming set we all get, and since sets come out amazingly fast paced at something like 4 sets a year, it isn’t much of a “paywall” to a card if the “wall” only exists for a few months. I could see someone claiming this was irksome, being in an unenviable position, etc. But hardly the need for a thread to try and amass others into their campaign to “Walk on MeanStreets” to give Hearthstone their idea of a boycott or a mass exodus.
I dont get upset at things being exclusive to people that pay ahead of time for things. Or that pay for things at all for that matter. I am not against that one bit. I dont find that to be greedy or scummy, its just the way you treat your customers compared to those who are not your customers but act like they are above others by not being one.
This game is "Pay to loose anyway"
You’re not wrong, but are there a lot of people who truly wish to do this? Most people who bum rush the new max level are trying to get to Mythics and gear up for raiding, not to be the first to reach the max level.
I’m struggling to find positives and negatives of doing this without access to the data they have. Or their goals.
It does look like an experiment, tbh. Maybe they feel their paying customers aren’t enjoying enough benefits for their money compared to f2p
Maybe they’re desperate and need the sales to go up so they’re starting with p2w tactics
Maybe they want data about the cards from paying customers only for some reason, and then maybe they compare those with aggregate data to fish for information
Who knows?
We’ll see what happens.
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I agree. A lot of what is happening is experiment and I’m not against it besides if the deck is trash corridor sleeper is not going to tip the scales. Plus there are a ton of AOE way more than ever before, so if you build a proper midrange or control deck you should have the advantage.
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OMG … in a near future you will be paying through the roof for the stuff you don’t need 
good luck with that … I don’t think you realize what they are doing here and it looks like you are supporting it. 
I agree with what is said.
The bottom line is - this game literally the same boring old crap year after year, month after month, it literally reset every month and you re-start the same thing you did last month this month OMG!!! All they do - is providing YOU with a new artwork of the same old product at at rip-off prices! Nothing else! They literally reshuffle the same old deck of cards, slap a new wrapper on it and give it back to you!!! 
Yes, it will be craftable when the new expansion drops. However, that is still a little over a month away. If you want to play this card before set rotation, you need to spend at least $50 (or equivalent) on a pre-order.
I don’t mind people who pre-order getting extra stuff, that’s what they are paying for. But everyone should be able to craft the card if they have enough dust. TBH, I’d be happy to see the pre-orders come with a premium copy so long as everyone can craft the regular one.
That’s how the game always worked: You can craft any card you want… Unless of course you don’t have enough dust, and only then do you have to spend money.
The card is part of the game NOW. It should be craftable NOW.
Don’t get me wrong… Right now, I don’t even think the card is worth crafting, but if it proves worthwhile, I’d like to be able to do that. I’m aware that the card itself doesn’t seem like its going to do anything significant, but that’s not the point.
The point is that hearthstone has never had a hard paywall for anything except cosmetic items (including cosmetic upgrades of cards).
This is the first time it happened, but that doesn’t mean its the last. I’m sure there would be a lot more complaints if a meta defining card was behind a hard paywall, and its possible they are doing it with a weak card this time to “test the water”.
Obviously no-one from the company will comment here (even if they bother to read it). But hopefully the message will get through, and hopefully this hard paywall idea (even though its temporary) will cost them more than it brings in.
I usually buy the tavern pass. I never buy pre-orders, because I don’t need to. Maybe they’re trying to get players like me to buy the pre-order by including something (non-cosmetic) that I can’t use my supply of gold and/or dust to get.
If so, it won’t work, and I’m going to boycott the tavern pass this time.
So you are upset that pre order crowd gets 1 month to play with a card before its allowed to be crafted? Im just not seeing the sense of the outrage buddy. I mean, what exactly do you think Pre order customers should be given for the fact that they PRE Ordered? The entire idea of Pre-Orders is to establish a baseline of the revenue to be earned by the launch of a thing being pre-ordered, enabling them to make decisions such as how much advertising should be used, how many people they need for the project itself in terms of a launch day crew to iron out launch issues if any occur, how much they can convince the check writers they submit their next proposal to as to how much of a budget the next expansion gets to work with. So many things get decided by pre order statistics on the company side.
So again I ask, since pre-orders are so important to many things beyond the scope of just early income for the company, what should the people that are earnest and willing enough to engage in said Pre Ordering get in the 1 month prior to general release. Im genuinely curious as to what special thing you would award the pre order crowd that would be an exclusive to them and not to the general public during that time. I dont think cosmetics are a serious answer to be honest. You can disagree all you like and I know I disagree with the perceived outrage you seem to think is called for here…
Um if you’ve bought the perks bg pass before, you got access to the new upcoming heroes to try them out prior to those without the pass perks. The heroes would be out soon enough, just like a month away, but still, I recall being able to choose Professor Putricide for a good dozen or so matches in that month leading up to his official debut. I saw no issue with this as it wasnt a long time to have such privilege, and it enabled people to learn how to play with the new heroes in the tavern in order to learn how to handle them at the same time the one using that hero was learning it at the same time. Perfectly fair to offer up the chance to learn how to defend against for a month while the perks pass buyers got to learn how to be on the offense with new hero to come.
Honestly I think this is a mountain out of a molehill and its just not the end of the world type scenario its being hyped into. I think a fair statement would be someone is irked by it, or they dont see themselves pre ordering just for that 1 card for only a month. And if you are a 100% F2P user then there will never be anything the company can do that will make you happy in terms of what they can offer up to their paying customers that gives said customers anything of any meager value for such a short time that isnt going to be available to you F2P only players.
this game is all p2w, everything is structured and manipulated for this, the rng varies based on the type of user, there are investigations underway for this and we could find the truth soon, if it turns out that blizzard favored those who pay it will be It’s very fun to see if there will be more to the initial 1600 layoffs imposed by Microsoft…
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I would say “unhappy” rather than “upset”. But something like that. All cards should be craftable as soon as they are legal for play.
If the card were any good, and you had to pay $50 for it or lose, I guarantee you would be unhappy about it, unless of course you buy the pre-order anyway.
This is a test, to see if the players base will accept “early access” cards. If the player base accepts this, you can expect future “early access” cards to be much better.
What a stupid question. They would get the same sort of thing they got any time they pre-ordered for the last 10 years… you know, more packs, more cards, more cosmetics. That is what they pay for. To be honest, I don’t care if pre-order customers get more stuff, I just don’t think anything (other than cosmetics) should be behind a hard paywall.
Anyhoo, read this. If you don’t understand the problem after that, there’s really no way of getting through to you.
Battlegrounds is a separate issue. BG is not constructed, so its not like you can play the same “early access” hero every game. Also, the BG pass was purchasable with gold… until it wasn’t.
But the main thing is that although BG is considered to be a “mode” of hearthstone, in reality its an entirely separate game. A different “mode” would allow you to use the same cards in a different way. TBH, what happens in BG and what happens in the main game are not the same.
However, it is an example of the “slippery slope” approach Blizzard are using to further monetize the game. They do something relatively small, and if/when that gets accepted, they use that fact to legitimise the next step, and that is exactly what you are doing for them by saying “it was OK in BG, so its OK in constructed HS”. Its not the same.
Its only “meager value” because this card isn’t particularly good. TBH, even if I could craft it now, I probably wouldn’t do so. But I would like to be ABLE TO craft it if I want to.
Wait and see if the next “early access” card(s) are also “meager value”. If it happens, I promise you the card will be better than this, and eventually “early access” cards will be meta defining.
I dont have many cards. Im still salty about the questlines from a while back, the colossals i never got, the titans, all the excavate cards, even this new Reno thats in every dang thing across the game. But I dont get so salty that I think that the paywall that prevents me from getting them all is something new. its always existed. pay in gold, pay in dust, pay in skill and time grinding to get rewards after each reset, pay in runestones, pay in USD. no matter how you wanna get it, you pay for them unless its a login gift type card. dont kid yourself that those barriers never existed before. they are all the same. just pre order get one month of play ahead of the other paywalls. one whole month. what ever will society do to handle it?
Will this card be available for people who don’t pay eventually? If so, then I’m ok with it.
Are we certain it can’t be crafted?
The difference is that until now, you could choose to pay in gold, dust or cash. But for this item, its strictly cash-only, at least for now. That is the difference between a “hard” paywall (cash only) and a “soft” paywall (cash OR in-game resources).
This is the first time a collectible card has been locked behind a “hard” paywall.
The only reason more people are not complaining is because, on this occasion, the card isn’t particularly good. Blizzard are testing to see whether players accept the “early access for cash” monetization strategy or not. If we accept it, we will see more powerful cards appear behind such paywalls, and (even temporarily) the game will suck, not just for F2P players, but for anyone who doesn’t shell out $50 every 4 months.
I regularly buy the tavern pass. I play a lot, and TBH, I don’t really need to buy it, but I think its worthwhile. I save at least 8000 gold for each new expansion, which is enough for 80 packs, which is enough that I don’t need to pre-order.
However, on this occasion, I’m not going to buy the tavern pass, simply because I object to this new monetization model.
IDK how many people buy both the tavern pass (better long term value) and pre-order (get a load of cards at once, but more expensive).
Some people already buy the Pre-order anyway, so this is not aimed at them. This looks like its intended to get regular players like me (who buy the Tavern pass) to spend significantly more on the game. There’s a big difference between $20 and $50 three times a year.
My response is not only will I not buy the pre-order, I will also refuse to buy the Tavern pass because of it.
If they are going to stick with this monetization method, things will get worse, and I’ll go totally F2P, until of course, I simply decide to give up altogether.
It will, when the set is released next month. But its an experiment in a new monetization model. Read this to see why its such a bad idea:
I already posted this in a previous comment, so I apologise if you already read it.
It will be craftable after the new set is released. Until then, it is strictly cash only, as part of a $50 or $80 bundle.
Please see the above link which explains why this is a bad idea.
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Most likely if you are going to play competitive you will buy the bundles, but I understand. This is a grim slap in the face for a 10 year anniversary. I might jump train or else I playing destiny 2 again.
This. I cant imagine someone going 100% F2P and also claim they are a serious competition player. Thats like saying the guy down at the YMCA playing Basketball everyday is a serious Olympics competitor, highly unlikely tho not impossible. 1 in a billion type odds I’d guess.
How can you possibly get 8000 gold from a tavern pass? Im already done with the current one and unsure what level I am now but I think its around 115 to 120. I have 4k gold and I havent purchased anything but a cosmetic option for 1800 of Khadgar Mage Portrait + his cardback. Thats 5800 tops. Are you getting to level 130+ on the track? I cant imagine any other way to get 8k per track… I can be wrong about that but I just had to compare my notes and double check how you are arriving at that value.
I honestly think there ought to be more of the legendaries behind a high and hard cash only paywall. Like Reno Poof. If he cost like $50 just himself, it wouldn t be so all over and in every deck I see everywhere in Standard/Wild/Duels/Tavern Brawl/etc. It wouldnt be such a game ending Win Condition that is just toxic af. I agree that the card in question doesnt seem to be of OP properties for it to be behind a paywall. I think it should have been to justify it. But as it is, I dont think it warrants it thus I dont have a particular issue that it currently is. I personally wouldnt have put a weak card behind the paywall, I would want the paying customers to get something of significant value for their patronage and early adoption of giving me their money. That sort of brand or dealer loyalty that say my dad has with the ford dealership he’s developed over the decades, each time he’s returned to get another vehicle he deals with the same salesman and gets a better and better deal than the last that no one else off the street could possibly get. Its that sort of relationship I am connotating with the pre-purchasers and blizz relationship. Its not 100% the same but its just to illustrate the point Im making, so poking holes in the illustration will just mean you dont get the point Im making lol.
It is absolutely possible to reach legend F2P. It requires regular play, collecting as many rewards from the rewards track as possible, including season rewards, limited time events, tavern brawls and promotions such as amazon prime, and very importantly - being very careful about crafting and disenchanting cards. And, last but certainly not least - learning how to play the deck, and how to play it against the other decks in the meta. That thing that players call “skill”.
Remember that you only need 1 good deck to reach legend. Obviously nerfs really hurt F2P players, because if you only have 1 good deck and it gets hit, you’re pretty much stuck with it, because you can’t simply craft whatever the next tier 1 deck is.
Rewards are listed here:
So, lets count the gold:
Rewards track 1-100:
25x 50 = 1250
20x 75 = 1500
14x 100 = 1400
10x 150 = 1500
Total = 5650 gold, plus other goodies like cards, packs and arena tickets.
After that, every level is 50 gold, so 100 levels = 5000 gold.
At level 200, you would have 10650 gold
Lv 300 = 15650 gold
Lv 400 = 20650 gold
Obviously this requires a huge amount of grinding, which is very time consuming. However it is possible to grind XP while AFK. This is controversial, but (until recently) it worked very well.
When Badlands was released, blizzard “adjusted” (reduced by about 75% IIRC) the amount of XP that can be gained from Mercenaries, which was the main way players could get XP while AFK.
You can still gain XP while AFK in other game modes, but not as much as Mercenaries used to. It appears blizzard are clamping down on this, and may consider AFK XP farming to be “botting”, even though no “bots” are involved.
Also, bear in mind that players would farm PVE Mercenaries, and that AFKing PVE does not “detract from the enjoyment” of other players. Pushing AFK farming away from PVE and into PVP is not in anyone’s interests.
That is a terrible idea… It would be just as much of “a game ending win condition”, and it would be every bit as toxic, if not more so.
Just imagine… you reckon you are on a level playing field, you put a load of effort into playing the best you can, you’re 20 minutes into a game that is in the balance, then BAM!! down comes a $50 card and you lose. How toxic is that?
Unless, of course, you are the one playing it. Then its only toxic for everyone else…
When a card costs 1600 dust, anyone can craft it. They can’t craft every card they want, but they can craft that 1 card if it makes their deck competitive.
Also: if a card is behind a hard paywall, how do they refund it when it needs to be nerfed?
Either:
1 - They refund actual money (not going to happen)
2 - They nerf it with a dust refund, and all the whales get pissed off and leave the game. They paid for a game-breaking card, not for however much dust.
3 - They give a refund in store credit (runestones), but that will reduce future revenue as people spend the runestones instead of cash, and players who only bought the bundle for the $50 card simply don’t spend any more money.
4 - They don’t nerf it. Pay to win means pay to win. The meta goes stale. Players who don’t have the card give up, players who do cry because they have to play against that “toxic” card every game, and its boring.
Its an experiment. Its a weak card so that people don’t really care about the issue. If the player base accepts it, the next “early access” card will be better.
They always have got “significant value”. Blizzard has been selling pre-orders for 10 years. And pre-orders are ALWAYS much better value than buying the deals that are always in the shop.
Even if that is true (and not just wishful thinking), it’s totally irrelevant, for a number of reasons.
First: You can’t compare a “free to play” digital game with anything that exists in the real world, especially not a car. You can sell a second hand car, you can’t sell a second hand virtual CCG card. “Free to play” games operate the way they do for a reason. No-one is giving away “free to drive” cars in the hope people will pay for an upgrade, and they never did.
Second: I have no problem with rewarding customer loyalty. But even that isn’t happening. This item is not available to “loyal customers” who have supported the game for years any more than it is to “the man off the street” who has never bought anything before.
Third: Giving paying customers stuff is always OK, whether they are new customers or old. But as I said, customers always got stuff for their money. This represents a major shift in the way (some) cards are obtained. The main game (constructed) has always been “pay 2 win” to an extent, but it has never had a HARD paywall before.
Anyhoo, did you read this? He says it better than I do:
https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/corridor-sleeper-is-a-threat-to-the-free-to-play-hearthstone-experience/