Conjuer's Calling, A Fragment Of Last Meta

Multiplayer Discussion
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Time for another card discussion thread made by yours truly!

It’s what I call CC, a fragment of last year. Think about it, would a card of this power level be fitting more alongside our new, more balanced tools or the overpowering assortment of cards from the past year?

This card can be defended in two ways, and I want to make a post arguing against those points I see and why this card IS a problem and needs to be nerfed.

First argument I see a lot is “Just run aggro!”
Of course, right? Why didn’t I think of that? Sarcasm aside, this doesn’t always work. CC can get taunts off, at times, two of them. This can completely shut down aggro, facing two 7/8 taunts as soon as turn 4. Aggro does have an upper hand, but still can be shut down hard as well by the very thing it counters.

And it’s an opinion of mine so don’t crucify me, but I don’t like more aggro decks on ladders. And yeah, sometimes it doesn’t get taunts, but can we agree RNG on turn 4 shouldn’t decide an entire game?

Another thing I hear a lot is “It’s the only thing Mage has going to keep it good!”
You prove my own point by saying that. If this card is strong enough to keep an entire class running, then it is in fact, a problematic card.

The amount of value this outputs, being able to have 4 of them and using them as soon as turn 4 isn’t fair and isn’t fun to play against when I have to, as a fellow member of this forums said, “Move mountains” just to win games or have a chance, considering you could’ve taken 8-16 face damage in the process.

Mountain Giant isn’t the issue here, it’s definitely CC. Mountain Giant is the one being abused, not the other way around. All classes can deal with a Mountain Giant on turn 4. However, no class can effectively deal with 8 of them throughout the game from just 6 or less cards.

While I believe this would make Mage a WHOLE lot less influential, that doesn’t excuse how outright powerful CC is. The value it gives is simply too much for a less impactful and powerful meta game, such as the last one.

And as these threads go, I’m not going to tell you my ideas of how to nerf it, it becomes too opinionated. However, I encourage all of you to do that!

What do you think? Do you think the card’s fine, needs nerfing, or maybe you feel Mountain Giant needs removing? Discuss and let me know!

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Meh like anything else its just all luck based and what you got in the opening hand and then the auto sequence after.

Hunter still tops the lists of Top Tier. Drops Mountain Giant. Heh I will be darned. They still carry a Hunters Mark. Was that the only in their deck? Only one played in 10 cards but it was the on turn 4 as needed along with a bomb toss. Heh Lookie that now the rest of the Hunters deck is flowing like maple syrup over pancakes. Drop a Minion and Hero Power. Drop a Minion and Hero Power. Buff a Minion and Hero Power.

Oh you got a taunt? Put on my venomizer on the bomb I made back on turn 4. bye bye taunt - SMorc you on turn 8.

Just luck and auto sequencing. Rock Paper Scissors matchups.

I hear the New 3 Kingdoms Total War is amazing.

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I only watched the Oversimplified video on it lol

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Not even the same type of game, but I am sure it is awesome as Total War tends to be in general. =) <3 Total War: Warhammer series.

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Great original post. Agree completely.

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Another game of Mage vs Mech Hunter. Played out the same way. Got SMorc’d by turn 8.

Venomizer, Bomb Toss, Ursatraon, Mechanical Whelps work like charm (with a splash of secrets). Bing Bang Boom along with Widdle Widdle Widdle Hero Power.

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Maybe your list is just bad?

…

…?

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How do you think control warrior feels when you play against them with Conjurer mage? Is the deck your playing not allowed to have counters?

Why don’t you give us a replay so we can help you out instead of just whining and victimizing yourself.

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As a Warrior player mainly, it sucks. No way to effectively clear unless I have both executes and both Shield Slams by 4.

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First off, that is a top-notch OP and that alone deserves massive kudos.

I agree that CC is quite strong and obviously evokes a memory of Carnivorous Cube, minus the body but with added benefit of an automatic triggering. The difference is that there is quite a bit of randomness (and thus, situational downsides) with the card with the only exception being it’s application to Mountain Giant.

Does it need to be nerfed due to this? I’m not too sure. One of the unique things about Mountain Giant is its cost reduction method, requiring a large hand that often mandates the player do essentially nothing for the first several turns in order to try curving into a power play. Between removal that can be held by slower decks and boards that can be built by more aggressive ones at this point, it’s much more often that I see this play fall flat on its face than go unanswered into a landslide win - and that’s speaking from both perspective of playing and playing against it with various decks.

All of that said, I wouldn’t been shocked to see it get a bump to 4 mana in the event that Conjurer of cheap tricks Mage becomes too difficult for the meta to properly answer, I just don’t really see that as being likely to happen. In a way it reminds me a lot of Tempo Mage back in it’s hayday (RIP Mana Wyrm) when it had Arcanologist an such - very difficult to answer when it draws a good opening, but not consistent enough to properly warp the metagame around it.

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Agreed, and thanks for the complement on this post.

As frustrating as it is, it’ll likely fall out of meta because of aggro. For more a timed thing realistically.

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I think the card is costed fine when cast on minions from 0-10 Mana. The problem becomes when it is cast on Mana cheated cards. And that’s where the frustration with it comes. It seems unfair to summon so many big minions on turn 5-6, 7. It’s like big priest. It’s isn’t unbeatable, but it is annoying and frustrating to play against.

As a general improvement to the game, I think they should change the casting mechanics to keep reduced cost on the minions after they are played. This would prevent a few different abusive strategies. I’d pair it with a fix to graveyard mechanics (tokens don’t go), as both counteract Mana cheating strategies.

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Would you try out or improve my dragon warrior deck? I really would call it big mage killer since I have so many removals and can out tempo them with my own minions as well. Ive won most games against mages more consistently than the regular control warrior but struggle against hunters) The idea of the deck is to get massive value with voone and barista. Get a big hand with dragons roar and or voone, pull off big twilight drakes, remove and play defensive, during endgame just alextrassa their face. Im at a low rank so I dont know if the deck is actually good against good players.

2x (2) Dragon Roar

2x (2) Execute

2x (2) Firetree Witchdoctor

2x (2) Warpath

2x (3) Smolderthorn Lancer

1x (4) Hecklebot

2x (4) Militia Commander

2x (4) Scaleworm

2x (4) Twilight Drake

1x (4) War Master Voone

1x (5) Barista Lynchen

2x (5) Brawl

2x (5) Dragonmaw Scorcher

2x (5) Emberscale Drake

2x (5) Supercollider

2x (7) Crowd Roaster

1x (9) Alexstrasza

AAECAQcExQSShwOVlAO9mQMNS5EGjQiJ8QKb8wLR9QKO+wKBhwOLhwPoiQPsiQOqiwPolAMA

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T5 evocation giant conj is really rare. Even curve t4 giant t5 conj is pretty rare.
a single conj or giant are a dubious keep in mulligan in many situations.

Its like tidecaller into tidehunter into warleader or whatever the dream opening is for murlocs. Or t2 angler and you dont have your 1 specific removal that can deal 3 on t2. Sometimes it happens but its kinda rare. Even warrior struggles with those openings.

Its been a very long time since mage was top tier as well. Jaina never really made top tier nor burn mage. Mechmage was the last top tier mage deck i think which is ages ago.

Mage struggles hard with fast flood agro,their single target freezes are ineffective and they have no good clears. I also think agro will grow and mage will decline but will see.

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Conjurer’s is definitely one of the stronger cards we’ve gotten as mages and the fact that it’s a Rare card makes it a lot more affortable… and counter what Blizz has said about their card rarity philosophy.

I’m just going to add (and maybe repeat) some points that prove this card should have been an Epic or even a Legendary.

The Offensive Use:

You don’t see it often but CC is completely capable of offensive play. It works wonders against a big Edwin, often splitting him into minions that are either easier to remove or simply don’t have the combined stats of a stacked Ed.

It destroys buffed minions, especially low mana mechs that have Wargears and Zilliaxes magnetized to them. CCing a Mecharoo with a Wargear attached to it just outright deletes the 5/5 stats of the Wargear and the replacement 1 mana minions (Jo-E bot included) are rarely anything to be affraid of.

So… hunters, don’t just shove those mechanized minions on your cheapest mech on board.

The Doomsayer Trickery:

In mirror matches you can destroy your opponent’s Doomsayer + Frost Nova combo to protect your board. Occasionally you can also try to roll a 2 mana minion for one or two doomsayers and it works on BOTH sides of the board.

Mana Cheating On a Whole New Level:

You don’t have two CCs in your deck - you have four. That’s two card slots for 3 mana, that give you four cards that let you cheat mana value like crazy.

When everything above is taken into consideration - everytime you split a minion into two - you get closer to that Sea Giant turn by discounting it.

Spiteful Conjurer:

Remember how good Spiteful Summoner was in Druid with UI? It was because of the 10 mana minion pools. It’s the same thing now with both Giants. 10 mana always ALWAYS gives you something solid. One might argue that getting the Reaver or the Pali Dragon is a bad roll… but it ain’t. MGs on the other hand can give you a huge taunt so… yeah.

All things said

Well… CC feels like a card you’d have back in the days of Kobolds & Catacombs. It just has that same flavor of mana cheating and it feels bad. I don’t feel like I’ve played something and overcame my opponent - it feels like I’ve smacked my opponent over the face with a huge “I WIN” glove.

Yeah, Hunters have defeated me with Rocket + Veno to clear my huge boards for good and the occasional warrior just completely kung fu’s me down to the floor… unless I’ve already managed to pull off at least one Mana Cyclone turn.

Who knows what we might get next expansion but if the card ever gets too oppressive - just delete the Twinspell keyword from the card text, that should cut it down to size without ruining the fun of it.

P.s. Yes, I do aknowledge that there are people who enjoy playing this combo, nor am I going to pretend that I completely dislike playing it.

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Sure! y favorite branch of Control Warrior is Dragon Warrior (while it is less successful than normal Control Warrior right now.)

So first, I’d drop both Firetrees. Why do you run them? It’s just better to Run Shield Slams. I’d also drop Scaleworms, and in it’s place dd an Eternium Rover and a Town Crier. Town Crier because of Militia Commander and next, Zilliax. I’ddrop Lychen for Zilliax. Why have both Voone and Lychen? You’ll just fill your hand too quickly.

Next. drop Alex for Dr. Boom. This is still Control Warrior, and even if it wasn’t you’d be running this card.

Last, drop a Dragon’s Roar for Ysera. This deck, being a variant of Control Warrior, needs better endgame. Also drop a Twilitght Draek and one supercollider for a Weapons Project and Harrison Jones.

So all in all, these changes turn this deck into more of a legitimate Dragon Warrior. It’s less thematic to Dragons, butit still carries the same punch of Control but with more Dragons. Hecklebot is fine, considering you’re probably teching it against Aggro.

A last, optional Change, is if you’re having trouble against Rogue, which is common, you can drop another Supercollider for weapons’ project. Against Warrior? drop Dragon’s Roar for Elysiana.

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I like seeing these type of threads.

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Good thing with the meta game, I’m always making them.

But also also this is the last card I see a lot of problem with, so… I’ll need to get thinking.

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I would find a negative adjustment to cyclone mage to be deeply disapointing.

Conjuror’s calling is a build-around card that requires mage to go in a completely different direction from what it would normally do.

It also forces a number of very interesting decisions on both the player and his or her opponent, as one of the real values of conjuror’s calling is its ability to turn a large, damage minion into two large healthy minions, making measured trades much more important for both players. The pocket use for turning a buffed minion on your opponent’s board into two weaker minions just adds another dimension to this play.

This card is also a key ingredient to one of the two combo decks currently viable in the meta, taking away another tool from an already underrepresented archetype.

Fundamentally, this card and the archetypes that it is represented in are not overperforming and, given the above, it should not receive engative adjustments unless it does start overperforming.

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No, it doesn’t.

2 cards, mountain Giant and CC. That’s it. No build around.