Imagine claiming that top 50 legend players suddenly started playing tier 4 decks, lol
And he thinks he’s actually smart xD
2 Likes
The issue here is that the new nature shaman lists are quite new. The VS data is from an aggregate nature shaman and for last week. Zak0 himself has already touched upon this on his socials, that shaman was disregarded based on this older data and that this is a new development that will be discussed in the upcoming podcast. I think you’re basically just talking about different things here. Data does take a little while to catch up to the good players figuring out how to win games. And this deck is definitely winning a lot of games or top legends wouldn’t be playing it.
3 Likes
Of course they do. Imagine thinking that they don’t. Hero worship.
There it is.
Rank 94 vs rank 130. I just got flashed turn 4 and beaten turn 5.
Pure tier 4 deck btw
There’s NO WAY this is healthy for the game or fair at all. You did NOT provide other decks the opportunity to win turn 5
1 Like
Unjustly by your own standards. You like to flaunt to other about how blizzard’s decision making depends on d4 to d1 so anything else don’t matter but when someone uses the same logic against you; you malfunction.
This is the same situation here but you are on the other side. What should be taken here is that blizzard works on balance.
It nerfs based on diamond and top legend.
It also nerfs based on sentimental and actual outliers, it’s just how it is, and good that it’s like that.
No extreme is good. Balance is always better.
2 Likes
A fair point, but honestly, if everything I say would be absolutely right if I said it six days ago then I’m completely okay with that. Seems a lot better to me than routinely speculating on the state of things with no valid evidence to speak of.
2 Likes
Got into top 100, played against 2 shamans, back to 125
Shamans are gatekeeping top 100. It’s unplayable
Grind for days, weeks, months, only to get gatekept by a toxic, uninteractive, twice nerfed, 3 times broken deck.
Welcome to top legend. Where skills matter!
1 Like
True, but that’s why the top 200 players don’t spend too much time going over stats. They’re the innovators so they’re the ones actually pushing stats in new directions, and they do so with more intuition than data analysis.
99.99% (or even 100%) of people in this forum are far from being able to do this so yeah, sticking to slightly delayed stats is the best thing you can do.
3 Likes
Or you can just not stick to it and live a little. Nothing is set in stone.
1 Like
Which is fine and all, but it doesn’t make them infallible. It’s a shame that Kassadin apparently has me on ignore because that is EXACTLY the reason why top 50 Legend players sometimes run Tier 4 decks. Not every experiment is a success.
2 Likes
Yeah true, 100%. Their worst experiment is probably my best ever homebrew tho lol
2 Likes
The win rate will still reflect a deck’s true power.
World champion pocket train was trying hero power Druid and went 0-8 or so. On the other hand shaman has taken over.
Just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s bad. The stats here don’t add up.
2 Likes
Like decades ago, before the Internet just solved everything, I helped one of the best Magic the Gathering players, a future US National Champion, playtest his Pro Tour deck. It was a situation where there were it was the first major tournament after a rotation, so completely unknown meta. We built lots of things and what he settled on he thought was rather clever. His idea, of course. It was a very bad build of the most popular idea that everyone else apparently also thought of. He had an embarrassing record at the tournament.
I don’t say that to disparage the guy. He was definitely in an entire tier above me, if not two, and I was a very strong player myself. He was a true genius of the game. But innovation is really, really difficult, and failures happen. I’m just trying to say that I’ve spent a considerable amount of time hanging out with the “top 50 Legend” types. Kassadin likes to believe that I don’t know how the sausage is made or something.
2 Likes
Is this a joke?
You are comparing one person experimenting to a whole group of people?
I get it this is debate club for you and you like to go with the opposing side based on OP’s choice but this is silly.
No, YOU don’t know lol.
2 Likes
I’m just saying that I’ve personally seen a pretty high level pro run a Tier 4 deck. And I have some insights into the hows and the whys of it happening.
He’s completely out of touch and he’s basically going around gaslighting people.
He doesn’t even play and he admitted it, and he somehow finds it in himself to fight tooth to nail about something he has no clue about.
I’m literally there. I’m literally a top 100 player who lost 25-30 games against that shaman today against all the top streamers and EVERYONE can LITERALLY open those streamers I named, and see for themselves.
That’s why he’s on ignore. Where I come from, gaslighting is frowned upon. It is a dangerous form of psychological manipulation and abuse. The person should be banned.
2 Likes
It’s really sad that these days someone trying to say “hey, not so fast, maybe that’s not it” is seen as equivalent to the rather severe psychological abuse that that term used to mean. We’ve reached a stage of ego protection where just asking someone to doubt for a minute is treated as taboo.
For the record, I don’t think that you are gaslighting me. I think you’re sincere but a bit unreasonable. And I think that you’re right about a lot of things.
And he literally gaslights you in the next post.
Like a couch potato sports fan telling an NFL player what it’s like to kick a field goal.
Or more dramatically, like a terminally online redditor telling a veteran what it was like in the trenches because they read All Quiet on the Western Front once in high school.
1 Like
It certainly looks like it from my perspective xD Few days ago he asks me for proof of one of my statements, which I provided in form of two scientific articles older than him
Do you know what he said to me?
That I’ve crossed the line of “what’s politically correct and acceptable”.
True story.
That’s when I finally realized it was time to save myself from more of that sickness and just put it on ignore.
When he’s in the wrong, even science can be politically incorrect and unacceptable. How’s that not gaslighting?
Imma risk getting hit in the crossfire here, but I think you are all being pretty harsh and unfair with the guy. I don’t think he’s gaslighting anyone. I definitely see how he can be a bit of a pain in the butt and talk in a rather obnoxious way (not meaning this as an attack tho), but he’s just speaking his mind and telling you what he thinks is the truth. Whether he’s right or wrong is an entirely different matter but I think you misinterpret his intentions and judge his morals too harshly.
I disagree with him on a huge amount of things. I’d say politically we are probably diametrically opposed, but I think he’s a bright dude that likes to debate. He has rather dry manners and he often displays a lack of social skills, but he’s honest and straightforward. He’s definitely not trying to gaslight you.
1 Like