Cockroach OTK Shaman is back...again

Multiplayer Discussion
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Surviving two nukes and back in top legend to make me quit the game

Everyone’s playing it. Pocket train is playing it, Norwis is playing, MDroogie is playing it, and a lot of top 200 legends are playing it.

It’s toxic and gives no counterplay unless you’re playing Warrior.

Please, for the love of interactive games and fair competition, just delete this deck from existence.

Hit the Flash of lightning. Just delete it from game.

This makes no sense. It is NOT hearthstone. You set up a board and threaten lethal only to lose turn 5 or 6 with absolutely no counterplay. And don’t even start me on consistency. The deck is mega consistent and all the above mentioned are successfully ranking up abusing the deck. Two different versions, as well, that’s how broken it is.

Just be done with it once and for all.

EDIT: Ok, so I collected the data only from yesterday (April 5th), and only from streamers who are connected to d0nkey top.

Source: https://www.hsguru.com/streamer-decks?class=SHAMAN

I filtered by class (Shaman) and manually counted the wins and losses pertaining to Spell damage shaman only, disregarding Highlander shaman.

The stats show a total score of 117 W - 96 losses, which equal 54,95% winrate.

As I said, free ticked to top 20.

So yeah, it’s not JUST an emotional outlier. It’s a broken deck when piloted by top class abusers.

This sample has some limitations. It’s “possible” that they all just highrolled (yeah, right xD) and the sample is too low (it’s one day of stats, so yeah, it’s perfectly enough).

But to anyone reasonable, this is proof enough.

EDIT 2: So I was curious how it compared to Shopper DH, deck which is objectively broken and is getting hit.

Same methodology, stats just for 1 day, 200-165 which equals to 54,79%

So apparently, OTK shaman is even more broken than the most broken deck currently, with 54,93%.

I rest my case.

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I dunno why they refused to nuke flash of lightning. Usually I am in favor of keeping decks playable but this is not a deck that should exist ever. It kills you in turn 6 and you have nothing to do but stare at the screen.

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Exactly.

Noone, I absolutely guarantee that noone is playing this game to feel powerless.

And yet, allowing this deck to survive makes people feel powerless. There is NOTHING they can do if a Shaman gets their cards, and they just get it more than 50% of the time.

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You can play Stomper and Acolyte I guess. As if those are any good in this meta outside of this lol. Teching for it isn’t even worth doing

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I would have to replace 4 cards from a deck full of synergies and even then I’d have 4-5 turns to draw those, max, and even then I’m just delaying the inevitable while putting absolutely no pressure on the board.

I’m not even sure this works xD

Only playing Warrior does, if that, even. I’ve seen Norwis beat Warrior just 10 min ago

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Yup. My prediction is DH nerf. Then they have to hit OTK shaman. Assuming they do that, wheel warlock goes off the rails so they have to hit that as well. I can’t go deeper than that in nerf predictions but those seem like certain issues.

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It’s so toxic. He’s not even interested in what happens on the board.

Pilot of the deck just changes songs and takes a look at 45 dmg staring at him, doesn’t blink at all. He just proceeds to finish his game of solitaire.

Toxic, toxic, toxic, toxic, toxic.

I can’t do this anymore. I can’t queue up into this. I’m not even tilted. I feel powerless. My testosterone has been stripped from me.

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Its pretty much the end result of the game design for the past few years. Minions have been rendered pretty worthless… treant druid probably being the most recent deck that actually looked to do primarily minion based damage to kill the opponent.

But with the efficient removal… massive from hand damage… every deck has morphed from at best a hybrid board based deck into a combo/otk deck. Most of the board these days are just spells with minion placeholders.

I think the deck is fine though. Sure it can highroll turn 6 but a lot of decks can… it mostly kills 7-9 which is about where most OTK decks have been for a while now. If you nerf it for ‘sentiment’ then dont forget zillax mech rogue because that game is just as boring.

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They called the last nerf sentimental. And it’s OK, it was a sentimental outlier.

But now, I wouldn’t call whole top legend ladder abusing it “sentimental outlier”. I’d call it abuse.

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I do cause I’m a sadomasochist.

Yes, I like playing Aggro Warlock.

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Is that sarcasm meant to denigrate my choice of decks? Because I play aggro warlock?

I don’t understand. The deck works. Usually.

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So fricken done with this super tuned super consistent otk bs. Weve had it for years.

Why even bother printing any cards designed to appear after turn 5? Why bother having a health pool? Otks deal infinite damage anyway. Why bother making and trying to play decks?

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Unless you’re paladin, who’s been the best performing class, even as recent as like just before the last round of nerfs.

I think what is happening is simply power creep. Power creep has made it such that when the meta even just slight favors one thing, then you’ll get the most extreme versions of that thing to dominate, because anything lesser just wouldn’t cut it.

When minion deck is on top, their minions are paladin or druid level of power. Anything lesser can’t crack through people’s heals/removals/eventual win cons/etc.

When an OTK spell combo works, it’s turn 4 or 5 shaman. You can’t be slower like Sif mage.

If greed is the meta, then you need to be the greediest. You need something stupid like reno, brann, shudderwock, endgame lock, etc… Old school control decks that just try to bore/fatigue people to death ain’t enough.

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It’s a stretch to call any of the meta decks interactive.

Reno warrior? Can survive nearly anything and if you don’t disrupt Brann or bomboss you’ll lose, that’s called interactive? That’s just a slower form of non interaction.

Dk typically plan is to just outlast you and let plagues do their thing. Plagues are interactive? They removed the only way to interact with plagues in rotation, and that was a stretch to call that interactive.

DH? Really if they draw weapon in curve and roll the right demons they can trounce nearly anything. How is that interactive it starts coming t3 well before anyone has time to do anything.

Wheel Warlock? How is that interactive, it is just stalling for 5 turns. No sorry 4.

Then you got the left overs, mage. Mage is interactive? I guess if you count disrupting Sif once every few games as interactive.

Oh and otk shaman is worse than the aforementioned decks how exactly?

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None of the decks you mentioned just let you do whatever you want on the board and just OTK you with no counterplay.

I have no problems beating any of those decks you mentioned above. DK is very slow, Warrior is very slow. All of them interact with you - they clear boards, they play tempo-losing minions, they respond to you and you usually know the timers when the game is over (turn 8 Primus, turn 9 double or triple Zilliax etc)

This? Nope. You just give your best to run the Shaman down as soon as your card draw allows you and pray they don’t have it.

Although sometimes even that isn’t enough, as WHILE trying to OTK you they just destroy your whole board. The one they just ignore the whole game because hahahahhaa, good luck killing him through his 0 mana 0/1 0/1 taunts before turn 5/6 when he gets lethal every time.

It’s not OK and you know it which is why you play it.

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Agreed, and I would not be playing it except…

Every other deck is as toxic or more toxic than otk shaman.

At this point, last I checked otk shaman is 44 percent win rate at top legend placing it solidly on t4. If players are picking it up in top legend it’s not because it’s a great deck to play, it’s because they are frustrated with the toxicity of all the other options.

Nerf every single deck in the meta. Then I would agree otk shaman needs to be looked at, but until then, your pointing your finger at the wrong toxic thing.

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Huh? So you’re basically calling every streamer playing it stupid or what?

I think it’s safe to say that if it wasn’t working for them:

a) they wouldn’t be playing it,
b) I wouldn’t be making this thread.

Top legend has way too little playerbase to use their statistics in a way you use the aggregate data statistics which have samples in hundreds of thousand games, not in hundreds of games.

Those data? Worthless.

I’m literally watching Norwis go from 180 to 50 in 2 hours with it. That kind of rank up rate isn’t normal.

I mean yes, it could be just a lucky streak, but it’s Norwis we’re talking about. He’s always lucky and always top 20.

I got a great hand 3 games in a row and just got DELETED, 2 times turn 6 and once turn 5. No counterplay. I feel so powerless and ask myself what’s the point.

THAT is how it feels to lose to OTK shaman. Would you like to feel powerless as well?

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Quite the contrary, they just arrived at the same conclusion I did, otk shaman, other than warrior has the most rounded spread of all meta decks. You can go into nearly any mu and have roughly 50 / 50 odds, sometimes better.

The games are also very short. It’s the ideal deck if you don’t want to play long drawn out games were you lose to some toxic bs discover chain or effect, or have your opponent win the disruption lottery.

In a toxic meta such as this, you want the shortest possible games with the most rounded spread to fight the toxicity. That’s otk shaman. Sure you will be adding to toxicity, but the games already messed adding a drop to a bucket will hardly make a difference.

Also, maybe there’s a tech or discovery they made that improved win rate.

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What are you playing at the moment, maybe I can give some pointers how to counter the cockroach seeing as I am playing with said cockroach all the time.

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I’m always playing Sludgelock

I used to have a good winrate against OTK shaman but every time they nerf the deck, somehow when it comes back, it wins earlier and earlier on average.

I think it would be more manageable without Pop-up taunts, but they absolutely destroy me.

Most of the times when I win it’s a lucky topdeck of Popgar+already having crescendo. Sometimes just crescendo is enough. But the odds of me drawing that are abysmal. Non-existant.

I tried with DH also, went 5/1 but I don’t like the one-dimensionality of the playstyle. That deck is also getting nerfed anyway, so no point in mastering it.

There’s no way anyone can help me better than to say “Just change decks”. I know it. I’m aware of it. But I don’t want to, because OTK shaman is literally the only reason why I don’t want to play this game this whole day.

I only played 3 games because I despise feeling powerless and having to pray to higher forces to get a win. I hate that feeling there’s nothing i could have done to win the game (although it’s a normal feel sometimes, against Shaman it’s always).

I’d rather lose 67% of games against DH than 50% against OTK shaman. And I’ve proven it cuz I have over 150 games against DH and I’m already gone mental after playing 10-12 against Shaman.

No advice can help me with that, but thank you, I really do appreciate you offering.

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