I think it’s you who forgot what happened with equality. After they nerfed equality, control paladin basically died (except for like some OTK holy wrath thing). While I don’t play control pally much, it is a valid deck type and some people do like it. Barov (and Turalyon and commencement etc) are just slowly bringing the archetype back.
Just as you (and I) want to see more support for druid deck types, control pallies deserve theirs after like 2 years. No need to cry for nerfing others when you could be asking for support for your own class.
You kinda answered your own question when you brought up equality (nerf). Pallies had suffered for like 2 years after the equality nerf. These powerful archetypes in 2020 is just them making a come back after the drought. Just hope that your class gets good things in 2021 (and then you get to enjoy being the target of hate ;p)
I don’t consider “libram of justice” as a board clear; in fact, it doesn’t clear anything on its own.
It’s just a debuff, which is one of paladin strenghts.
Barov is more like a board clear, but that’s the cool thing about dual class cards.
I don’t think they are contraddicting themselves when they released these cards (and libram discounts).
I also don’t think paladin needs a nerf just because it has a playable deck. If the deck is problematic, sure (maybe it is and I don’t know?), if it is just good, let it be (like every other good deck: etc warrior for example)
Control is not supposed to be Paladin’s identity according to the devs’ own classification. That’s why Equality was toned the hell down. You can’t have a class with sticky Divine Shield minions, swarm tools, weapons and minion buffs plus tools to delete the opponent’s tall board out of the way. That’s in no way a balanced identity. Midrange Paladin essentially doesn’t need to fight for the board.
I don’t mind Paladin getting well statted minions and buffs, weapons or swarm support, which it has been getting, but they absolutely shouldn’t have the tools to delete the opponent’s tall threats and entire boards. The hell is any board based deck supposed to do against Paladin with their overstatted DS minions and a nuke button?
…uh no, it doesn’t say that. The classifications doesn’t talk about deck types. They only talk about individuals things classes are good or not good at, like removing big minions. These strengths and weaknesses don’t care what deck type the class runs or doesn’t run.
No, that’s just like… utter nonsense. No offense. The fact they released Barov and Turalyon such other control cards proves that control is a valid archetype. Heck, even before Barov the year of the dragon gave paladins healing dragons, duel and a OTK.
Also note that while equality was nerfed, aldor peacekeeper wasn’t. Humility (lol) wasn’t. Using aldor with stampeding kodo was a way paladins removed a lone minion long long ago. Paladins used to also have Tarim which set every other minion to 3/3 (read: can deal with a board full of tall minions)
So paladins have always had ways to deal with big minions, sometimes even a full board of them. It’s one thing to nerf (some of) them, but removing it all is simply unreasonable, and claiming control paladin isn’t a deck type even moreso.
Because the ability to clear the board is unreliable at best. It would be one thing if they had a single card board clear but at best, a board clear can’t be performed until at a minimum round 4 with Barov and Broom and that’s just a one off that hurts both sides. In the case of Barov/Consecration and Justice, it’s highly dependent on when those Libram reduction cards are played. At best turn 6 or 7 but often times that just isn’t the case. For comparison, in the same time Druid can flood the board with Clowns or buffed minions and the solution is what- just die because there shouldn’t be a counter for certain classes? There is also the fact that cards like Justice, Consecration and/or Barov and Broom use up card space where stronger buffs and other cards could go- which hurts Paladin and helps decks not able to deal with the huge minions that would create. Essentially, it’s a balancing act between survivability and being able to build a board that can win. As my primary class, I can assure you, pulling off a board clear is not always easy and just as often you end up having to use one component of the clear against a different threat.
It technically does. No control deck in existence has “destroying big minions” as a weakness. Paladin is not meant to be a control archetype according to the devs themselves. Paladin is the midrange class. And a midrange class with Paladin’s well statted sticky divine shield minions, buffs and weapons should not have buttons to nuke the opponent’s board just like that. That’s not balanced in any way. Paladin as is essentially doesn’t even need to use their well statted board to fight the opponent for the board due to those nuke cards making the task supremely easy.
How are Paladin’s tools unreliable? Paladin doesn’t just get cards that nuke the board. Paladin gets curvy packages with great minions and buffs and cost reductions, everything.
in the same time Druid can flood the board with Clowns or buffed minions and the solution is what- just die because there shouldn’t be a counter for certain classes?
I’m sorry but where is Druid’s solution to big minions and zoo boards then? If someone cheats out a huge thing early (which Paladin, Warlock and Rogue can do, for example), is Druid supposed to just die? So Druid is vulnerable to both aggro and huge threats - as the class’ weaknesses state - but Paladin gets to have their cake and eat it?
See that kind of selective “balancing” around these class identities that devs posted themselves is what makes me laugh at the state of the game.
Because Druid can build a huge board by turn 6 with 10 mana to the opponents 6. And that’s not even taking into account they can get overloaded mana even faster and triple buff a full board of glowflies before Paladin even has the tools necessary to remove them. I’ve ran into so much of this that I switched to playing Warlock and have much better results against Druid. They also have the ability to fill the board with Ysera Unleashed after Paladin has wasted board removal on other buffed minions. The power of druid is board control before the opponent has yet to build any significant board presence.
And trust me, they are unreliable when they rely on other cards to reduce their cost and they sit at the bottom of you pile. If you’re playing pure paladin, your option for card draw is abysmal so you are at the mercy of rng a lot of the time.
And Libram Paladin doesn’t have an insane curve in your opinion? Or what? By turn 6 Pure Paladin will kill you and consecrate Druid’s swarm boards or nuke any big minions any board based deck would try to play to contest.
How is that balanced? How?
Broom has card draw out the *** along with Paladin’s well statted minions too.
When the curve is good but it isn’t always reliable and there is no way to really draw through cards reliably. And, while there is a card that allows that, it takes up two slots for other just as important cards. That’s where the balance comes in. You can have board clear and card draw but you give up other buffs and minions to do so.
How so? And as the game evolves and win conditions are added to one class, other classes have to be given the tools necessary to respond. Justice/Consecration is not a great board clear-only when the pieces line up and you don’t have to use one of those pieces to deal with another threat which happens more often than not.
I think what people get frustrated with is, they are aware of the deck you are playing and how it is going to play and they are prepared to answer that. That’s the negative side of everyone using the same decks, the strategies for dealing with them are also the same. That sucks but not everyone has the time and patience to build unique decks. If they did, I think a lot of these complaints would go away.
GA Druid wasn’t perfect. You could get no Overgrowth or draw key beasts before GA. Didn’t prevent the devs from butchering the card.
Why does Paladin keep dodging patch notes despite having several extremely overtuned archetypes for months and terrorizing the average mmr playerbase? Why does midrange Paladin have both an insane curve and nuke cards that let them essentially ignore any other minion based deck trying to fight for the board? How is that balanced? Was Soul DH also balanced then? Hm?
Because Libram always gives you a chance to respond. GA does, but not when it’s cheated out on a perfect opener, which crossed the threshold of being too common, thanks to not relying on legendaries, and having nature studies…
There virtually is no way for Pally to cheat out an unsolvable board, or to delete you in a swing turn from an empty board. They are just consistently strong overall. That’s why they escape nerfs…
For example what IS the most lucky opener a libram can pull off? 1) the 1/3, 2) +2/+2 3)Coin - Alura - 0-mana recruits - Hope ?
That requires the coin, a legendary, a 2-of spell in your hand, and a 2/8 chance to hit hope (if no other spells in hand) ? It’s just not broken enough
No, it “technically” doesn’t. I don’t think that word means what you think it means dude. The fact is, those control pally cards you think should not exist… do exist.
You’re basically just repeating yourself and hope your falsehoods become true. Sorry, it won’t. Control pally has always been a thing, and it is a thing, and might actually be on the rise in 2021 (2 pure cards will rotate next expansion, libroom is losing selhet’s for draw, so pure and libroom might become weaker, which means more pallies might go down the big/control route)
Quest with Starfall. Gidra. That summon totem spell that gives them rush. Bigger minions. They’ve actually been given some tools for their weaknesses. They just aren’t as abundant as say Priest tools. But they are definitely there.
The class identification stuff isn’t strict rules. They are constantly broken.
Gidra and Starfall are nowhere near good enough to count as removal against zoo, let alone big minions. Quest forced Druid to do extremely suboptimal plays early game and the archetype is unsurprisingly dead nowadays because any remotely fast meta laughs at it.
Devs broke the one good combo Gidra had - with GA, which was technically a removal card for Druid, and that card was butchered.
If there weren’t this hilarious “selective balancing” mentality Paladin would’ve been adjusted long ago, it’s long overdue for changes.