Can someone explain aggro to me?


#130

7 minions with savage roar = +16 dmg on top of their 1/1+ bodies which is typically 21+ dmg. And by the time its played they rarely have more than 21 life. Not to mention +1/1 all minions in several forms, additional savage roar if you draw 2 early.


#131

My deck has 1 card above 4 cost which is 6/4 summon 4 1/1 deathrattle, everything else is 4 or less cost. That’s aggro, period. Murloc aggro gets out aggro’d by it. Zoo’s get out aggro’d by it. Name 1 aggro that doesn’t.


#132

amused by this win rate. I played token for the first season in YoTD and i win quite a bit. But turn 5 -6? The only class i can do that is mage because they dont do anything for 4 turns. Meanwhile, acorn bearer dont always drop and many decks dun even run other 1 drop. Recent decks realise the curve is bad and hence added a few more one drop. Yet the only real play they have on 1 is acorn bearer and perhaps mecha roo. Turn 2 is dreamway guardian or Evil Cable rat (which is horrid tempo), turn 3 best is summon 2 2/2 treant. Its super inconsistent in the draw because of a limited curve play. Sometimes my hand is just savage roar, savage roar, forest aid, 3 mana twin spell and cant do anything. This is NOT an aggro deck play style. An aggro deck will never be that inconsistent in curve. Try murloc shaman and Zoolock and see how often you pass turn 1 compare to Token druid. Its a combo because they try to set up a situation where they can burst down alot damage later. And may i ask 68% is on which rank?


#133

post your deck list? perhaps yours is a very different token. I never met a token that out aggro zoo before. Esp carpet zoo


#134

Turn 3 summon 2 1/1 mechs, (microtech controller), the entire point of the deck is spam board, stick deathrattle incase it gets wiped, then use savage roar on turn 5 or 6 combined with all minions get +1/1 from 2 different cards.

It is very consistent, it almost never draws poor due to every card in the deck costing 4 or less, and almost always draws its “combos” which play off the board of tokens. Even when it doesn’t it is possible to spam the board and play deathrattle summon 2/2 on turn 7-8+

I achieved rank 5 with ease from rank 20. it’s 15-7 not counting at least 3 wins on mobile so 18-7 is more accurate.


#135

2x acornbeared
2x Mecharoo
1x Crystalsong Portal
1x Dendrologist
1x Dreamway Guardians
1x EVIL cable rat
2x Hench-clan Hogsteed
1x Knife Juggler (About to be replaced with another dreamway guardian)
2x Power of the Wild
2x Blessings of the Ancients
1x Landscaping
2x Microtech Controller
2x Savage Roar
1x Archmage Vargoth
1x Explodinator
1x Replicating Menace
2x Soul of the Forest
1x Spellbreaker
2x Swipe
1x Whispering Woods
1x Eccentric Scirbe


#136

So you played other things obviously as +11 isn’t enough bonus stars from r20. Listen, even as a primarily Control player ehhh… the idea that aggro is ‘dumber’ than Control to me is a fallacy. Most decks from either side are pretty minimal decision trees to be made in HS mainly because you don’t have a ton of avenues to attack.

Sure, aggro has less decisions per game but, in honesty, most of the decisions for Control decks are the equivalent of “do I want 7 day old bread or a burrito?” Not really decisions because the correct answer is fairly obvious.

Also yes… Token Druid beats Murloc Shaman in Standard no doubt. That isn’t because it is such a brain-dead aggro deck but has to do with the fact that Shaman has no real efficient way to remove tokens unless Thunderhead + fuel is found early. In Wild it is a bit different due to the tools available to Murloc Shaman being a lot better while the tools available to Token Druid only being Mildly better outside of some of the uber-scary openings it can do.

I digress…
As a Control player primarily I think you’re overselling how tough the decisions for Control are in HS.


#137

This deck surely curve out better but still it don’t look strong. Maybe I can try it. You have quite a bit of minions making crystal song portal hard to activate. You deck have no draw or significant card generation apart from dendrogist and crystalsong for you to reliably play whispering Woods. Past turn 6 to 7. If your board is getting controlled. I can’t see much recovery from there. Or if savage roar is not drawn by then.


#138

Facts;
Aggro spams board which forces opponent to play clean up, which means that they play from behind.
If they don’t draw the perfect removal or any early game cards they’re done.
Any slow starting decks are done.
Right there gives it a 50%+ win rate then even if it isn’t favored it still has a positive win rate against slow starts and unfavored match ups.

IF it draws correct the game is over turn 5-6 regardless of opponent. It spams tokens, plays “Deathrattle summon 2/2” and then savage roar when lethal is acheivable.


#139

Oh and 15-7 is just what is recorded on my laptop. My other games on Mobile don’t get recorded. But they’re more than positive win rates trust me.


#140

Facts:

  • Baku Warrior last year had a decision tree which was about as complicated as Face Hunter

  • I have a Control Shaman list right now which, until I moved to Wild this month, had ~70% WR against Token Druid as the deck was built for Token Druid and Control Warrior. Mage and Hunter are tough for it and Rogue is about 50/50. So while you state “My Token Druid will win” at least Shaman has neough redundancy in removal options to cause Token Druid issues as a Control deck.

Also, using Token Druid is a bit of a misnomer in general. Token decks have always, in HS, been more about a board Control battle than it has about a Spell-based removal system. For instance a Rush Warrior should do better against Token Druid than Control Warrior. It is why Zoolock is the worst deck for Token Druid because Zoolock can win the board battle (same reason why Murloc Shaman sucks against you).

Edit:
Control is tougher right now but last year Control was a joke because of how good of tools it had. Priest, Warrior, and Warlock coudl all kick back and relax some against Aggro. It was one of the reasons why Combo got such a foothold because Combo-Control had too many COntrol tools.


#141

Again, aggro wins 50%+ based purely on having low cost minions to start. Then it wins roughly 50% of the remaining 50% based on good draws and mismatches. So its roughly a 75% win rate depending on the draws. As is most good aggro. It beats any slow starts. And still has a decent chance against everything else.


#142

I wish we live in a world where aggro have 75% winrate. Sadly, most aggro is at early 50+%. Meanwhile i do agree your deck list constitute close to aggro. But that is not the common token list. So the argument from the start isnt on the same premise already. The most commonly played token list is still not an aggro deck.


#143

It’s a bold move to make blanket statements about a deck’s winrate when there are plenty sites out there that have actual data that prove otherwise. There isn’t a single archetype in this meta that has a winrate of 60% (let alone 75%), and such numbers would be legitimate grounds to call for a deck’s nerfing.

It’s true that Aggro wins if their opponent can’t stabilize. That’s literally what Aggro does. Doesn’t mean it’s overpowered, braindead, or more dominant than any other archetype in the meta.


#144

Yeah I discarded cards that aren’t favorable to the win condition. It needs a board presence to land savage roar or SotF. The 8 cost drop 5 2/2’s is useless in most situations. Although it has been a win condition for me its a card burning a hole in my hand 4x to 1 easily. Ramp up the deathrattle summons and ability to flood the board for a strong board to play the +1/1 cards and/or +2 att and/or SotF. and its a strong aggro deck.


#145

Infinity, I’m not stating that it has a winrate over all platforms, I’m simply stating my personal experience with it. I’ve won roughly 70% over 25 matches.


#146

So you’re telling me that the following decks didn’t crush aggro in the past:

  • Taunt Quest Warrior
  • Whatever Control Priest shell I felt like running (Quest + MB is probably my favorite)
  • Baku Warrior… where I literally felt SAD for any aggro when I hit them

Control is a bit weak right now due to only have 2 real classes capable right now in Warrior and Shaman. I looked at my deck tracker from last month:
Control Shaman against Druid (vast majority Token): 18-8.

I promise you you are not winning 75% of your games against a competent Control deck + player. 50/50 with the current tools maybe but again… outside of when Priest had Psychic Scream token has never been an open and shut win for Control in HS as they tend to force double removal from the Control class eventually.


#147

I won’t say not favourable. Just very different. The common token can refill the board every turn and eventually drain the opponent out of resources until the board stick. It can last till turn 10+ and still have resources. You switch it up and aim for early stabilisation and stick to hope for an early savage roar to end the game. Pretty sure past turn 6 - 7 your deck pretty much run out of steam.


#148

THAT, certainly, is an aggro deck. It isn’t what I’d call the optimal Token Druid build, but it’s definitely aggro. The usual build runs Crystalsong Portal and 2 8-drops (The Forest’s Aid), which means the resulting play style against control is incredibly different.

I will say that your matches against control are likely to be boring, from both sides. Your match against Mech Hunter is similarly boring, and one-sided. Your matches against Zoo, Lackey Rogue, and Midrange Hunter, though, will likely involve a lot of decisions on both sides.

…And even though your early game is better than the standard Token Druid, I can’t imagine it still wins against Zoo. Zoo contests the board much better early on. and never allows the Druid a foothold. Much more comeback potential, as well.

I will grant that Token Druid beats Murlocs. However, why is it that when a control deck runs a Murloc deck out of gas by killing all its minions, it is “controlling” the Murloc deck, but when Token Druid does the same thing, it is “out-aggro-ing” it?? The game plan against Murlocs is clearly attrition; only a newbie would leave a Shaman with Murlocs on the board, unless they have lethal that turn.


#149

I sometimes play Murloc Paladin in Wild (the normal fast version of it without 10 mana spells).

Because sometimes I just want to be fast and win 1-2 matches with paladin. It’s also the only deck I have that stands a chance against Big Priest (only if they draw badly tho).

Oh and I also drew every card I needed from packs :wink: It doesn’t take a decklist from the internet to figure out a well-performing murloc wild deck.