There needs to be a card that can reset things back to normal to get rid of permanent card effects. Sure Reno can wipe the board clean if there’s something permanently on the board, but as of now there’s nothing else that can get rid of permanent effects (battle cry or death rattle happens and boom that card effect is in play forever) of course with Druid mana ramp such a card could be abused, but idk. There has to be something. Maybe make such a card and slap on a “once per game” label
This wouldn’t bother me.
Make it something like
Chromie: Time Rewinder
5 Mana
Battlecry: Remove all effects that last for the rest of the game. (Once per game)
5/5
Dragon
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I like it, I vote to put you on the dev team 
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I like the idea of something that deals with auras, Quests, or any card that says for the rest of the game.
Is something like that what you mean?
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i dont like the idea of a card that can negate an entire deck win condition on its own without a way to counter it
this feels worse than theotar not even a way to get our effects back
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You make a good point I had not considered.
If a Quest is your only win condition, then one card ends it, that seems unfair, I think.
So yeah, maybe something that interacts with Quests or Auras without destroying them? 'Cause right now, they are solitaire.
Yes exactly! Forever is a long time after all. Now it would be different if those forever cards had a cost. For instance, random example: “for the rest of the game your minions have reborn, at the start of each turn, take 5 damage.” Such a card would make sense because it has a powerful effect, but it also has a risk which means you couldn’t just play it carelessly
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so something like
Bronze Acolyte, neutral 3mana 3/4 Dragon
Battlecry: Discover a “for the rest of the game” effect and undo it, then shuffle the card that created its effect back into the opponents deck
There are plenty of existing ways to counter permanent effects. All these ways have 1 thing in common they all work toward ending the game instead of derping around keeping the game going nowhere until the opponent explodes to fatigue.
There does not need to be a hard counter to everything. The good old face punch suffices.
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I like this. A sort of reset that shuffles the Quest, or the Aura, or permanent effect back into the deck and makes them start over.
It would also encourage players not to build one-trick-pony decks.
I agree here. Inevitability is a good thing for the game.
The question is a matter of how fast is too fast for these win conditions.
If priest shard came down consistently on turn seven, that would be too fast. But the way the quest works, where almost everything is faster than quest priest and you really have to try not to beat it, is fine.
Then you have something like bomboss and brann combo pre nerfs, and that was totally not fine because it was nearly as effective as the shard and came down consistently early, protected by an early Reno that undid the clear counter play of smashing their face before they get their combo off.
Rest of game effects are fine.
Can you explain why you think so? Because I disagree with any deck that simply gets the proper draw, making winning a foregone conclusion.
That’s not what inevitability means.
It means the longer the game goes the less likely you are to beat that deck because it’s designed to finish the game in the late game as opposed to aggro wanting to finish early.
You’re on a clock against most decks, the only question is how long is a fair clock.
This is incontrast to barrens control priest that just played aimlessly for days.
So, this I’m cool with, same as I am good with decks that either burn you up, or run out of gas.
Where I get irked is decks like Quest lock where they simply complete their quest, and win with very little interaction at all. Now, I’m in wild, so it’s a different affair, but I’m just using that as my example. Decks that do not need to fight for board, or even interact are what I was thinking of with the word inevitable, and there have been many. They just draw until they get their pieces, and if they haven’t lost by then, then they cannot be beaten. Solitaire decks like this have always been one of my biggest peeves. It’s why I dislike Quest mage so much.
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While I see where this is an issue in wild because they can go off on turn four with infinite mass production and gg, quest lock in standard wasn’t nearly as much of an issue post nerfs. I don’t care what balance looks like in wild and blizzard for the most part doesn’t either in any active sense.
If I hit a bad patch of warlocks I just spam pirate rogue and usually win more than I lose against anything.
There’s nothing wrong with this in general, only question is how long is the clock to assemble those parts?
If we’re talking the first four or five turns, it’s toxic but turn nine or ten and after is totally how the game should be played now.
If you don’t like that, then you have the issue, not the game. You aren’t the target market anymore and you should go.
The game we started playing is not the game they are selling now, and the only people really mad are the ones unwilling to adapt.
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I would love to know who is? People who only have their bathroom break to play?
The mobile market. 45 minute fatigue matches don’t play well without trackers and computers. There’s been a strong push to increase lethality across the board and it’s been moving that way for years.
People call it power creep, and there is some of that for sure, but there’s also a clear design shift away from control decks to faster strategies with planned endings.
If you ask me, this sounds like a completely different game . Seems more cost effective to just scrap this one and start over.
While I am not a fan of Odyn or Helya, I also agree with this logic.
Maybe to make it more balanced it could be something that delays or pauses the effect currently in play or even an aura on a minion.
It is a different game and I keep saying exactly that.
You keep trying to make it what it was and it’s never going to be that ever again.