People who believe that AFK farming is great should ask themselves this question. What if EVERYONE did this?
I can’t imagine it being called a game any longer if 2, 5 or 10 thousand people all farmed the entire Diablo Immortal world.
If this was to be truly allowed, there’d be hundreds of players who would kill nothing at all because there would’nt be enough spots or monsters left. The current AFK farmers would be the first to cry about their places no longer exclusive to them, I guarantee that.
It’s really time for a ban hammer on AFK/Overnight farming. And a forum suspension for those who advocate it.
Is that (duel challenge) the same as this (captcha)?
I think I’ve said it about 3 times. Based on the experience with the current various invite features, there are no annoying issues, so it should be fine.
If not, give a challenge cooldown. The duel challenge feature is more similar to the party invite feature than the captcha.
What my alternative can block aren’t macro bot players. If you’re so worried about bots automatically pressing ‘no’, then randomize the location of the challenge pop-up message. The open-world macro players you assume are not really that many because if they openly do repetitive actions then sincere players will report them.
The bases of the argument are scattered here and there, so I summarized them.
I agree with you, but that’s not the point.
I’m not saying ‘AFK farming through macros that clearly violate the EULA is not absolutely bad’.
Even if it were as you said, they don’t seem that would keep in reserve the EULA and then ban people like this below at some point.
It seems that I’m the only one here who says ‘AFK farming may not be bad’. They do it a lot on my server… I wonder what other servers are like. Every night, Necros here and there…
What I mean is not that it’s good, but ‘if many people admits it, it’s not necessarily bad’.
Whether many people admits it or not, my personal opinion is that it’s not absolutely bad.
People like you always use extreme situations that can’t happen as bases of an argument.
A need to change our thinking exists in some degree.
In the case of Familiar, we don’t do anything and get rewards after a few hours.
AFK farming or Auto-battle is the same. We get rewards after a certain amount of time.
But I’m personally skeptical from the perspective of ‘Do I really need to play a game hard using up my smartphone battery like that and my smartphone display like that?’
You’re not trying to grow the pie (the size of farming rewards) and are trying to nerf others down because you don’t be able to do the same thing. The way to grow the pie that everyone can eat is one way. For example, introducing an auto-battle feature, making multiple channels of the same farming zone, or increasing the monster density and frequency of the entire open world.
Also, I’m not an AFK farmer, but I don’t think it’s that much of a disadvantage compared to AFK farmers. Doing that doesn’t make them much stronger than others.
Rather, I think I can beat AFK farmers in PVE or PVP. Because the strengness of a character depends on many factors other than good item.
Of course, if the majority is negative about it, I have no choice but to accept that fact. However, if we change our perspective a little, it’s not that much of a problem.
The point is simple.
People would find unwanted PvP challenges just as annoying as Captcha challenges.
If being spam-invited isn’t a problem, please explain why these settings exist…
We’re back to ad populum again. The number of people that think it’s okay to cheat does not alter the fact that cheating is bad. Going to bed for 8 hours and having your hero farming the whole time you’re asleep is cheating. It’s gaining an advantage over people that, you know, turn the game off whilst they’re asleep. It’s covered in the EULA. It’s cheating.
You quote other posters and go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the quote. You’re trolling and trying to impose your viewpoint over and over again.
Again, the ‘many’ in ‘many people are annoyed or not’ is a guess.
There’s nothing to discuss there.
But have you experienced such an annoyance recently?
I get the occasional Helliquary or Elder Rift invite.
Not persistently, but once or twice.
I easily press no every time, so I don’t find it that annoying.
And again, if there’s a 30 minute cooldown, what kind of psycho would come next to you every 30 minutes to do a duel challenge?
Even if they did, is it that annoying to press no every 30 minutes?
Captchas are hard to solve, right? Blizzard Battle.net sign-up captchas are really annoying.
I admit that these settings exist because some people feel ‘invite’ annoying exist.
But these settings are only for Helliquary invites, and you seem that you don’t use these settings either.
There’s a personality difference as one of causes of feeling ‘annoying or not’. You seem to think about negative things more negatively than I do. In some cases, you think what I don’t think negatively as negative. I don’t think negatively about dungeon players with CR lower than the CR criterion, and I don’t use the banish feature either.
A challenge cooldown could be introduced for those who are sensitive to duel challenges.
I said, EULA interpretation is fluid.
Is ‘AFK farming of Necro using Infinite Golem, Skeletal Mage’ specified in EULA?
I don’t know the EULA as well as you do, but from what you showed me, ‘AFK farming of Necro using Infinite Golem, Skeletal Mage’ doesn’t seem to fall under the EULA.
methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard? No
influencing and facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs? No
any of the prohibited actions set out in this section C? No
any code and software, not expressly authorized by Blizzard, that allows the automated control? No
This is the same story as this below.
The logic of ad populum shouldn’t be applied to something which has a characteristic like that of Necro AFK farming. There are cases where the judgment of ‘what is right and wrong’ is determined by the majority’s preference. Depending on the times, the laws you like change and the regulations change.
When we dicussed I5 prefarming, you defined I5 prefarming as cheating by asserting the logic of ad populum. The majority of people in that thread didn’t agree with your opinion.
Well. Anyway, you and I have very different values and personalities.
I wish you, who expresses many opinions for the sake of Diablo Immortal on this forum, were a little more flexible.
I respect your attitude of discussing calmly and accurately.
If you’re trying to discuss, don’t talk that vaguely, but talk specifically.
And if you want to refute my opinion, talk focusing on the content of my opinion, just as I focused on the content of your opinion. Please don’t disgress being vague.
You realise that screenshot was taken / posted on the 27th, i.e. a Thursday, right? Even if you untick these options, every Monday and Thursday the game re-enables them at the 03:00 reset.
Yes, I’d find that annoying.
Remember, it’s being invited to do something I don’t want to do, and I have to actively reject it, otherwise I’d be forced into the activity I don’t want to do. I like to determine what I want to do in game, not have other players be able to force me into stuff.
If they introduced this challenge idea, I guarantee there’d be immediate calls for them to put an option in the game, like the raid invite options, that automatically rejected them. At that point, everyone just ticks the box to auto-reject, and then what was the point?
Yes.
You ignored this part…
granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods
Going to bed and having your hero farm unattended for 8 hours whilst you sleep gives you 8 hours worth of gold / items / XP that someone who turned the game off didn’t get.
No, I didn’t determine whether it was cheating or not by how many / how few people disagreed with my position. My position was based on the fact that the method involved four players, all of which were incapable of doing INF5 dungeons, having three of them on INF5 doing nothing, and one on INF1 killing everything, so the 3 on INF5 got INF5 loot. My position was entirely based on the fact that you shouldn’t be able to get INF5 loot if none of your party can do INF5. My position had nothing to do with whether the position was popular or not. Quite the opposite, in fact, as you pointed out.
Again, that’s covered in ad populum. Just because lots of people disagree with a position doesn’t mean the position is wrong. Just like lots of people agreeing doesn’t mean it’s right. Something’s either right or wrong, regardless of how many people agree / disagree.
Well, when it comes to cheating, and wishing that Blizzard would actually enforce their EULA when people cheat, I’m very happy to be stoic on that.
Exhibit A, taken from World Chat a couple of minutes ago (names obscured to protect the guilty).
People are openly advertising for necromancer, open world, for the entire night…
Yes afk is an absolute pain, but I don’t blame the people doing it. It’s a pain in the but going round and round farming. When you get to my level(currently 721) it takes ages to go up a level and you get restricted from doing stuff. I blame blizzard, they won’t do anything about it. I could go on about other aspects of the game, but I won’t. I’m no expert at this game hate pvp ( I’m rubbish)
Is this really a thing in your server cluster? I‘ve never seen a message like that since launch on ours. Here and there I‘ve seen the question arise, if there is a group running circles and wouldn’t mind 1 or more players going on follow while afk. But this trend also stopped with the introduction of daily gems in Terror Rifts.
Of course I‘ve also seen the occasional afk farmer here and there, but those are never an issue imho.
So it seems this is not a general problem, but only on some servers.
there are def servers worse than others, AFK and stationary farming wasn’t even a thing until the last server merger on mine. Ppl came from the other server and basically overfarmed most circles out of existance.
I think the AFK farming happened because of their convenient feature, legendary and gem sent through the mail, which is supposed to be helpful for everyone, and the players took maximum advantage of it.
But then, removing it will only make people just botting for real…so I don’t know what the correct way to combat this.
It would be too much to ask the DI team to actually monitor the situation with their eyes and take action on it after all.
They simply don’t care about it. This has been an issue for a very long time. No matter how many players you repport for this absolutely nothing happens. As long as its players who uses a ton of money nothing happens. So theres no point in reaching out tobthe devs because they simply dont give a sh!t about this.
This isn’t a group of four players, where one of them is running a circuit killing mobs whilst the other three players are on follow to the active player. It’s a group of four players, all of them Necromancers with a pet build, standing completely static on cardinal points of such a circuit, with their pets on aggressive killing things, i.e. in that group of four none of them are actively playing. This method also results in daily gems as the heroes are in a group of four.
You mean you are using denial feature of helliquary invite permissions ?
Did they really make it this inconvenient? Permissions are reset to ‘on’ every Monday and Thursday? I have never used this feature so I don’t know.
You are merciless and ungenerous.
The invite permission feature only applies to helliquary and not to other content (Elder Rift, Challenge Rift, Dungeon Party, Open World Party, etc.) so why do you guarantee so? That is just a guess.
The question meant that ‘The words ‘AFK farming of Necro using Infinite Golem, Skeletal Mage’ are literally written in the EULA?’
I have seen and you have seen the EULA you showed me.
I have only focused the main points of the EULA and you have only focused the parts that are favorable to you.
I googled the EULA and there are 2 versions.
cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard (whether accomplished using hardware, software, a combination thereof, or otherwise), influencing and/or facilitating gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;
cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard (whether accomplished using hardware, software, a combination thereof, or otherwise), influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, intentionally benefitting from any of the prohibited actions set out in this section C, [whether commercial or otherwise] and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;
Whatever the version, the meaning is the same.
methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard
influencing and/or facilitating gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs
These two fall under ‘such methods’ and ‘prohibited actions set out in this section C’. ‘prohibited actions set out in this section C’ is broader, as it covers all prohibited actions defined in section C.
Did you intentionally ignore ‘from any of the prohibited actions set out in this section C’, ‘using such methods’ and only focus the parts that are favorable to you?
I’ve actually felt this way before. You have only been citing the parts that are favorable to you in my reply to you. You may remember me pointing that out to you before.
‘Granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players’ is not necessarily done through unfair means. It can also be done through having more playtime, better play skills, or more money than others. This EULA prohibits ‘granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players’ through only unfair means. This EULA defines unfair means as:
In addition to these, all the actions defined in section C
That’s what I meant. I think my message was a bit misunderstood. Correction:
‘When we dicussed I5 prefarming, you defined I5 prefarming as cheating by asserting the logic of FALLACY of ad populum’
How many times do you say that? Our discussion can’t progress because you keep repeating the same thing.
I countered with this:
Try saying something different.
Even if you say that, you are only denying the game company and many people below.
influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, intentionally benefitting from any of the prohibited actions set out in this section C, [whether commercial or otherwise] and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;
This is the part…
intentionally benefitting from any of the prohibited actions
Your hero farming for 8 hours whilst you’re asleep is clearly a prohibited action.
If you’re going to quote that part, quote the full part…
granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods
So…
Player 1 leaves their hero AFK farming and goes to bed for 8 hours
Player 2 turns the game off and goes to bed for 8 hours
Player 1 gains an advantage by using the method of AFK farming over Player 2 who does not use this method, as Player 1 gains gold, items, gems and XP that Player 2 does not.
And I’m telling you that at no point did I rely on ad populum as the basis for my opinion.
You, and others, responded that because lots of people disagreed with my opinion that my opinion must therefore be wrong. That’s literally textbook ad populum.
My opinion, again, was that a party of four players, where none of them are capable of doing a dungeon at INF5 (at the time) then they shouldn’t be able to farm INF5 items due to one of them being on INF1.
Where is the ad populum in that opinion? I literally don’t care how many people disagree with it or not. I have a logical stance, i.e. a group of players should not be able to get loot from a difficulty none of them is capable of completing.
Try refusing my logical stances, rather than saying lots of people disagree with them.
Let’s be clear. Let me hear why you think it’s okay for…
A group of 4 players, none of which can complete INF5 dungeons to be able to farm INF5 dungeons by one of them killing stuff on INF1
A group of 4 players to AFK farm whilst the players are fast asleep in bed
Do not tell me how many people think it’s okay.
Actually try and justify why you think it’s okay.
Never tried it myself, but being a PC player, I don’t think that I could “sleep farm” even if I wanted. Being idle for a number of minutes gets my character to be kicked from the game and I’m not sure that having familiars or summons killing things counts as “not-idle”.
So, if this is the case, there would clearly be an unfair advantage for all those who can actually go to sleep and leave their characters farming, simply because there are others who CAN NOT do it.
If only because of that, AFK farming should never be allowed, IMO.
Yes, I want the official remarks.
Because we have many many AFK farming players.
If you want to see them, I can guide. (They are always in some places.)
And it seems they have NO penalties.
Hmm…?
You seem to be very popular.
Why am I not getting an invite?
There is no need to quote the EULA that you and I have already quoted several times.
I also googled the Blizzard EULA and went into the link.
Maybe you weren’t reading my entire post.
You are misinterpreting it.
I have to repeat what I said.
Necro AFK farming is using features that the game company has made available.
Skills that the game company has made, mail acquisition feature that the game company has made, open-world farming features that the game company has made… The prerequisite for ‘benefitting, granting you an advantage over other players’ is ‘using such prohibited actions’. Necro AFK farming is not one of ‘such prohibited actions’.
You are the one who is not focusing on the full part of the EULA, not me. You are only focusing on a part.
I already know.
The meaning of this words is that ‘You asserted that my argument was ‘fallacy of ad populum’ and I5 pre-farming is cheating’. Not ‘Ad populum’ but ‘fallacy of ad populum’. Even if my English is a bit unclear, try to understand the overall context of what I said. I know, you said I committed ‘fallacy of ad populum’, not me saying you committed ‘fallacy of ad populum’.
It’s really hard to discuss with you.
How much did I talk about in the posts I exchanged with you?
Are you asking me to write about them again now?
I wrote many reasons. Also, ‘ad populum’, which you mentioned, ‘majority’s preference’ is one of my reasons. I talked about what the game company did, I talked about the EULA, and I also said ‘it’s not that much of disadvantages’. These are all I can think of right now. I also talked about growing the Pie.
One more thing the game company did: I heard they also removed poison feature when you stand in the open world for a long time.
(I5 pre-farming was talked about a lot last time, so let’s stop. I said it as an example of you not listening to many people.)
It seems that I’m on the complete opposite side of you because I’m refuting your argument, but I’m not completely on the opposite side. I don’t know if you remember from my posts, but I don’t think that AFK farming problem matters. It doesn’t matter to me if the game company prohibits it or allows it. It’s just that people are saying ‘AFK farming is bad’ in a determined manner but ‘if you change your mindset a little, it might not be a problem’. I were concerned that people are too one-sided. I’m saying to be more lenient and flexible.
Honestly, I think that ‘Why are they doing it while having a waste of electricity?’, ‘At best, how much stronger can they become by doing AFK farming?’.
However, looking at the people in this thread, I think the game company will take action on Necro AFK farming sooner or later. If the majority of users want it, they should do it.
People tend to stick to the way they’ve been doing things, so they don’t accept new things well. So they think ‘I’m taking a big loss’ even for small things and demand balance nerfs and preventing others from doing certain things. The game company is constantly increasing the density and frequency of open-world monsters. Be open-minded.
What I asked for is for you to come up with a good reason why my position is bad and, instead, you keep falling back to telling me that lots of people disagree with my position.
And there we have exactly what I said. Because lots of people prefer it, it must be right.
Yes, because I think cheating is unacceptable and cheaters should be account banned.
No, you keep telling me that lots of people disagree with me.
Which means you’re okay with other players gaining an XP / gold / item advantage over you because their heroes are farming whilst the players aren’t controlling them.
Their own EULA says it isn’t allowed. It’s prohibited. They’re just not enforcing it.
