Simple question on the upcoming changes: Why press the nuclear option button first when balancing instead of methodical, small to moderate changes? This applies to any class. Let me just preface a few points first:
- I agree Barbs needed certain nerfs. This is about how balance is handled in general.
- I played necro X2, rogue, and Barb X2 this season. I am looking at this from someone that plays multiple classes and changes his class each season. (I tried sorc but couldn’t do it. I feel you guys truly.)
- I agree Druids and Sorcs needed large buffs in the form of fun, synergistic, multipliers.
- I like a shifting meta each season. Its fun.
- I like a challenge.
- I enjoy the game and this season overall was a big improvement. This is just a call to reduce the caffeine intake of whoever is coming up with some of this stuff and give them an extra dose of Ritalin.
But here is where I don’t understand your core philosophy.
A. You are throwing buffs/nerfs like a drunken sailor on payday. I get that new items are going to increase power levels of certain builds but broad, sweeping, multi-layered nerfs and buffs not only destroy underperforming builds as well but create confusion for someone who doesn’t login each week and finds their builds broken.
B. Massive sweeping changes like this make your balancing job even more difficult. I know it has to be hard but why make it more of a challenge?
C. Why not introduce moderate changes at the start of the season since the philosophy is to not nerf/buff immensely during the season? Then introduce small buffs/nerfs and adjust during season.
D. I find certain builds that I enjoy even after the season is over from different classes that I want to play on eternal. Why nerf it into oblivion instead of leveling them out?
E. I thought you were “Bringing other classes up to barb”? I mean I expected some nerfs but now, I was going to try Sorc next season and what will happen? Will you go nuclear option on Sorc instead of making smart, precise adjustments also?
F. I think the devs are listening far too much to certain streamers feedback who love to submit these nerf/buff articles because they feel self important and they are looking at this from someone who plays for a living. I wish the devs would focus more on what bugs, exploits, and ideas both streamers and general players come up with rather than their balance suggestions. I am not asking for perfection, just several good options.
G. Just remember if you are a proponent of heavy nerfs for one class to make yours look better then that next class might be yours if you play mostly one class.
Anyway, I had fun with all the classes I played this season. There were lots of positive changes but sometimes you guys are like 3 steps forward, 2 steps falling backward into a deep ravine filled with pit vipers.
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Yea I played an Upheaval Barb this season until I discovered my Bash was out-damaging my Upheaval. It was great to finally feel powerful as a casual player not following build guides to a T, which is how this game should be imo. They are catering too much to the min/maxers, streamers, and gold buyers to be perfectly candid. They definitely went too far nerfing damage to close, bash cleave, key passives, and straight up removing a temper. I’m sure I forgot more nerfs. And it’s not like 5-10%, it’s like 50-80% on each, gone.
I’m incredibly lucky to have another character now that’s just as good and according to PTR changes, may finally make it to eternal without being completely crushed into the ground by incompetent nerfing.
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I’m willing to bet that the game will be well balanced in S5 (perhaps Bash a bit nerfed too hard but still comparable)
What however I also believe is - they’re trying simple fixes to solve a complex problem…
When doing nuclear options already then do the atomic one as well - introduce a new damage system that will calculate stuff in a proper manner (piercing damage, explosive damage, impairment damage, damage over time), then properly redesign skills to use some
Until something like that is done we’ll keep going up and down, in and out 
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I feel you 100%. My goal on eternal was to eventually have 1 of each class with a fun, non-cookie cutter build to just login and play for fun. I expected to have to make a few adjustments to these builds after a major patch but doesn’t look like its in the cards. It will be difficult to keep up with all the changes to any class.
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Barb needed to be nuked blizzard proved that they were unable to balance everything with how strong barb was remember bigger numbers are hard to balance also I’m sure that barb will still be the best class after being nuked
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Can we still say this? Ahoy mateys! 
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lol, I hope so. I haven’t been muzzled yet:)
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Lol that’s all they seem to know. Nerf. Why fix things when you can just nerf lmao.
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I’ll disagree with the opinion of a person regarding balance that didn’t even know players can replace Aspects and Re-Imprint on Legendary Items…
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come play as sorc in season 5, we have 1980’s shoulder pads, you gonna love it!
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I want my loose suit pants and my curly mullet hair
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lol, got to love those pads! I probably will start as sorc in season 5 then rogue, then dare I say druid which is the only class I haven’t really played much. “Edit” forgot how short the season is. Druid your out buddy sorry
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…you really think the Sorc buffs are that absurd that they would get nuked right after? Sorc buffs just look fine to me imo.
No I don’t. I think sorc desperately needed them and all the love they can get. What I am saying is after season 5 is over what will happen to them might be based on what they are doing to barbs which is the nuclear option instead of small to moderate moves.
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A lot of your points make sense to me. I know they sometimes explain what they were thinking during campfire chats, and I personally haven’t seen one in awhile (that’s on me, I think). I definitely do appreciate it when they take the time to say… so here’s what we saw during the season, we are updating x y and z, and it will be on the test server.
We didn’t always have the test server, and some of us still don’t. PC for the win on that! 
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My tinfoil hat says the goal isn’t to balance the various available options. The goal is to establish a set of god tier concepts, a set of runt concepts and evenly distribute the rest between the two extremes. Then they just periodically shuffle it up. Toss in some minor, marginally relevant changes here or there to fill out the update notes.
Why would such an approach be used? Simple, it’s difficult to balance a game with this many options. It’s much easier to use the approach described above.
If the changes per “balance” update are viewed from this perspective… everything fits. Wide, sweeping changes with large magnitudes, stuff getting absolutely brutalized with the nerfbat, stuff getting mega-buffed, under-performers getting nerfed, over-performers being mysteriously buffed, etc. The best advice to give is… learn to embrace the meme. If one visits a circus it’s best to approach it like a circus.
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Yeah adding the ptr for some seasons was a huge W. The next campfire chat will be interesting for sure and not just because of the new class. I have a feeling they might be forced to address this issue.
From the info that we got so far, which is still not the entirety of it, I would say this is exactly what they are doing. And I honestly don’t want to defend Blizz, as I have mostly trashed on them for the last 3 seasons. But, I have played twisting blades, rapid fire, barrage and 2 different versions of heartseeker on rogue this season, decompose necro, fire bolt sorc and flay barb. And I would say that the buffs to the sorc are at best case moderate, they are by far not OP, but not bad as well. I could get 35k life on my rogue easily, 35k on my necro even easier, 60k on the barb with half-assed gear and barely 19k on my sorc with 90% optimized gear… That’s insanity! None of the builds on the rogue were doing hundreds of millions of damage per hit, not to mention billions. Same for the sorc. And I doubt that the buffs to the sorc will make the class do hundreds of millions. Overall, I think the changes are good an moderate and can be adjusted in the mid season patch accordingly. However, that being said:
This are two things that I fully agree with. I hate this as well and I would like them to finally stop doing this BS. Nevertheless, I do have to say that this time is a bit different at least for the rogue (main rogue here). They did fix the victimize and therefore nerfed the heartseeker, which I enjoyed so much, but there are two things here:
- I agree that unintended bugs should be fixed even if they result in nerfs.
- They did compensate for the fix, by providing the new unique sword which actually gives you 300% damage and 25% increased attack speed if you are able to row the max stats. I know that the net result is still “nerf”, but at least it’s not completely destroyed and unplayable. As much as I trashed on the Blizz for the past 3 seasons, I can give them credit for at least putting some effort to improve.
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I can’t argue with any of your points Iridium. It does fit the pattern for sure. I don’t have to like it lol but it definitely makes sense what you are saying. I will try to embrace the meme:)
Certain? My dude I slapped together a bash barb with crap items 0 mw and minimal (bash cleave on weapons), instantly pushed higher than my with rapid fire rogue 12/12 mw and 3 ubers which is also S tier. Nuke was needed.