Temper Changes = Victory Lap Confirmed 🏎

[Vic1ouS-2764]

Not only, they also split the most tricky/bricking Temper manuals into 2 (I know this one for ex. cause I wanted to roll double Charged-Bolt cast)

It will be on a Manual that has only 3 options in S5 (as opposed to 5)

[chozz-11206]

You think this change deserves a victory lap? Jesus, please raise your standards. It is ok to expect more creativity from the D4 team.

[Myrddin-1520]

It didnt get changed in any meaningful way

[mike-15289]

Pretty sure the people that wanted change weren’t accepting the suggested 1 extra roll per greater affix. If anything, us that were accepting of the tempering system won. The risk is still high to brick.

[Shelledfade-1351]

1 more temper per GA? That’s the solution ? That isn’t a solution. Bad game.

[MageCraft-1617]

Continuing the discussion from Bricking items needs to go:

@MageCraft-1617

They’d be listed and easily seen lower right:
7/7
9/9
11/11
13/13

Fought the good fight on April 5th and throughout the PTR about Tempering.
Then I blew off the Season altogether(irl stuff and game apathy).

I was suggesting 2x Tempering “freebies” per GA Tier.
Glad we got something at 1x Per GA Tier.
System is still… idk.
I kind of don’t care anymore.
Oh Charles had a neat idea here (link) and it inspired something.

Tempering - Quenching Process (Improve RNG)

Yeah, something like that but you could only quench once to remove 1 affix you dont want. This would improve RNG.

So basically using his suggestion which I thought was interesting…

Pay up extra $$ up front - his “Quenching” feature - for 1 of 2 options.

• Option 1: Lock in Affix should you roll it - item still is open to Rolls until Tempers are exhausted but Players will not lose the selected “locked-in” Affix
  -OR-
• Option 2: Lock Out Affixes. As Player rolls they can REMOVE Affixes from the Pool on a given item. Yes eventually they’ll get their desired roll but with limited rolls and 2 Tempering slots - one must use discretion.

Both ways maintain FULL RNG but give Players some agency and control.
Both can be a gamble as well - Paying more for a Tempering “Perk” but RNG can still screw you.
Nothing is guaranteed.

Original idea as inspired by CharlesJT’s post/suggestion.

@MageCraft-1617

I think it should still be open to RNG but “quenching”, if it or anything similar were to become a thing, should lock-in affixes when a desired one appears as well as(possibly more importantly) lock-out Affixes.
It could theoretically still take 4 Rolls to hit the target Affix(or 5 is there’s still going to be Tempering Manuals with 5).
That keeps RNG in the process but much more costly.

Even opting to lock-in an Affix - one might never see it again and exhaust all Tempering attempts trying for a higher value - BUT they’ll still maintain the desired Affix.

A one or the other choice when using your “Quenching” idea BEFORE the Tempering process begins.
Lock-in an Affix or Lock-out Affixes
Kind of a cool compromise.

[AzureOgre-3419]

Tempering is fine. Bricking is fine. More rolls for GA items is nice.

[Masta-1565]

I don’t call that a victory lap. Why even have a limit on it? Put an increasing cost to it like the other crafting tweaks. Even six attempts is ridiculous to try to masterwork two options on a piece of gear.

[LavaWisp-16837]

ya urza likes to take credit for other peoples ideas alot

[DragonV-11983]

Bad news!!! The good temper affixes will be rigged heavier. Now you have lesser chances to roll a good affix. Welcome to corrupted Barblo 4!!!

[Iggi-11818]

@DragonV-11983

The good temper affixes will be rigged heavier.

This forum never disappoints.

[cesmode-1959]

I am one of the few that think Tempering is fine as it is. If you haven’t noticed, since the big nerf of Season…1 or 2(whenever it was that people raged at the massive nerfs) Blizz is afraid to nerf or make anything difficult. They’ve made everything easier (and justifiably so in certain areas). I think there needs to be some sort of difficulty in making a GOOD item beyond finding one with a few decent affixes.

In POE, you can run through 1000+ fuses to try to six link an item. You can burn through hundreds of alteration orbs on the same item. Its expensive! In Last Epoch, even with their deterministic crafting where you add the affix you want, one click can brick the item. And we are crying here?? IMO, it was fine the way it was but I understand people’s complaints.

So they give you one more click. I honestly laughed at it thinking you all are going to rage out. One more click to get the same unwanted temper you’ve rolled 4x in a row lol. I guess youre happy with the extra chance. Im simply happy they aren’t removing the risk of tempering.

My god imagine this game if everyone got GG items the first time they got a GA item with the affixes wanted and just clicked upgrade a few times without any risk. The loot hunt would be the same as it was prior to S4. We need to chance to break items, or make it insanely expensive to temper.

[zfz-3619]

The problem isn’t that people aren’t getting their BiS instantly. The problem is that tempering has a high chance of taking away a good item that has already dropped.

When you take anything away from the player, it feels bad for most people. So your design should always be to avoid that.

Take Phatasy Star Online for example, a game where adding affixes to items is not only complex but has extremely low odds when you approach 4 good affixes on an item, but people rarely complain about it except in jest.

Why? Becuase they designed the system with full player agency, and it doesn’t brick the item.

At worst, you waste a whole lot of resources to make a series of gambles with increasingly lower odds of sucess as you add and level up each affix, going from 80% to 60%, 40%, 20%, 5%, even as low as 1%, and when it fails you end up with the original base item with no affixes attached, but you can always just start again.

Not only are there little real complaints (except from newbies), crafting items that have rare and expensive affixes at extremely low odds is “content” for streamers, and those items are chase items for veteran players.

Newbies can choose to add only 2 affixes at high odds, maybe be adventurous and attempt 3 affixes; and when they feel like it, they can take their item and enhance it further.

But with Tempering in Diablo IV, enhancement is a one-time affair with the limited tries, and when you fail to get your affix, that item is trashed and you feel it’s taken away.

That feeling of having something taken away from you is the problem.

[Pathologic-1340]

@Urza-1177

1 hour 17 min confirmed temper changes confirmed on June Campfire Video. 1 more temper per Greater affix on item.

This is game over for all those saying tempering would not be changed.

Love to hear from some of you and you can admit your wronginess!

Time to take a victory lap here for me and all those supporting changes.

And then get back to work because this is just a band aid. Bricking will still happen. We need to address the manuals

Tempering 2.0 🔨

What victory? It’s exactly the same, with (very) marginally increased chances on ga items.

You’re funny. Not the haha kind.

The actual funny thing is that I don’t think anyone gives one iota of a crap that tempering is changed; only masochists complain about it being easier to get gear. It’s just funny that it comes from people being stupid and whinging about things that are perfectly fine. It is almost certainly the case that any actual change to tempering (ie: increases chances more than a very small amount) will lead directly to a reduction in base item availability as a result.

@zfz-3619

The problem isn’t that people aren’t getting their BiS instantly. The problem is that tempering has a high chance of taking away a good item that has already dropped.

Good legendary items don’t (ever) drop. An item is not good until it has tempers on it. You might get a good potential item, a good base, but until you temper you have nothing.

@ArmerWolf-2445

@Urza-1177

Bricking will still happen. We need to address the manuals.

Please have a look at the ‘Sandstorm Augment’ for barb which is an implementation of what you want. 3 choices all for one ‘skill/ability’. But I still bricked about 12 2-Hand Maces trying to roll Damage. In addition i never want Size on a 2-Hander and already have Chance to cast twice.

TLDR; no matter how you arrange the manuals there will be bricking!

(2/3)^(12*5)=0.0000000000027%

Better move to a country without thunderstorms, because the next one that comes you’re copping 6 bolts to the face.

Or, more likely… you’re unbelievably prone to confirmation bias.

[Nightprowler-1280]

@cesmode-1959

In POE, you can run through 1000+ fuses to try to six link an item. You can burn through hundreds of alteration orbs on the same item. Its expensive!

But at least you can keep trying until you get it.

[miamivice196-1740]

Given that 95% of the feedback on Tempering has been a big negative, this should blow me away, but in actual fact does not surprise me. I guess i am expected to continue to farm for better gear that never drops and then if finally something DOES drop, well you know what happens next.

[Pathologic-1340]

Confirmation bias. 95% of the “feedback” about tempering has been people happily playing the game, who still continue to do so 5 weeks into the season. People who enjoy things typically don’t post about it on the forums, they just play it.

Forum feedback is all well and good when it is based on evidence, fact, or is somehow represented in play patterns. When people whinge about stuff but continue to play it at unprecedented rates, it should and probably does get taken with a grain of salt.

[Shivera-1883]

@Urza-1177

This is game over for all those saying tempering would not be changed.

Anyone stating Temper wouldn’t be changed is foolish. Of course they are going to iterate on the system. I just stated no major changes until VoH.

And I don’t consider adding Temper chances to be major. Welcome change? Absolutely. They’re also shuffling some Tempers around - also welcome.

Here’s my some of my major changes list:

• Utilize Resplendent Sparks in some capacity in the Temper system.
• Actually change skills more, such as elements/size/effect.
• Move away from Weapon Tempers and just use Offensive category (move current Weapon to Offensive).
• Keep current rolls on Temper slots. Players should be able to roll, then assign the Temper… or discard it.

[Pzypro-1837]

Just keeping current roll would have been enough of a change already. Don’t even need more. That way you’re guaranteed to preserve at least something useful and can try for better stuff. Whereas right now you’re usually stuck with the first semi useful thing you get unless you’re willing to risk ending up with something completely useless.

But 6 rolls on most items is an improvement at least.

[Pathologic-1340]

@Pzypro-1837

Just keeping current roll would have been enough of a change already. Don’t even need more. That way you’re guaranteed to preserve at least something useful and can try for better stuff. Whereas right now you’re usually stuck with the first semi useful thing you get unless you’re willing to end up with something completely useless.

But 6 rolls on most items is an improvement at least.

Keep the current temper is utterly useless in avoiding bricked rolls, why do people keep bringing up the idea as a fix to anything?

The only effect that has in the vast majority of cases where a roll actually matters are to get a slightly better version of the same roll. It does absolutely nothing to avoid rng bricking items; most important affixes are not interchangeable, there is no “best” and “useful but not best” options - there is “this item now works” or “this item is dog poo”.

Keeping current roll really only has 1 use and 1 use only, and that is in “perfect” item creation where someone actually cares whether bash does 890% or 900% damage.