D3 style paragon system needs to return but infinite or not is up for debate

I think traditionally aRPG is just a genre where majority of the player base is solo. D4 added some MMO elements and maybe tries to re-invent something out of this genre. Historically if you look at the Diablo franchise as a whole, majority of the players plays solo and remains that way up until now.

Completely disagree. If the Diablo 3 system worked so well, why did the 2nd expansion get cancelled?

because D4 was in the work …

Yes. Last season I played D3 it took 15 min to hit max level solo, full set and 800 paragon in 4 hours pushing gr 100+.

It wasnt my cup of tea I uninstalled it. I mean D3 is a good arcade game if thats what you enjoy. Its far from being an arpg.

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Wrong. It got cancelled because they weren’t going to make enough money from it. Not enough players bought the Diablo 3 first expansion to warrant continued development of the 2nd expansion. If the game was so good, shouldn’t they be expecting a 2nd expansion to make even more money?

That sounds exaggerated lol. Post your d3 profile :laughing:

RoS was the most successful D3 expansion ever, one can even say it saved D3. You don’t know what has happened on the inside of blizzard, and the actual reason why another expansion was no longer in the work. Money is obviously a factor, but not all the reasons.

Do you know when blizz planned D4 and when was D4 actually started production ? usually a AAA game starts theory and drawing stages 10 years prior to a targeted release date. It make sense between D3 and D4 was about 10 years. It is fair to believe D4 was already being planned long before that .

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It isnt. Mind you they had alter of whatever. The hardest thing was getting the diamond to remove gear level requirements.

D3 leveling after hitting leveling cap is okay. “Infinite” progression is NOT okay. There needs to be a definitive end in leveling.

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Mind you they “could” have unlimited as long as power gains stop. Rewards could be cosmetic.

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Cosmetic or qol improvement shure.

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You say it “saved” Diablo 3, but clearly it didn’t. Diablo 3 failed big time for hundreds of reasons. It never retained it’s giant player base from it’s initial release. It had RWT via an Auction House, it had a a bot problem, it had to get completely redesigned multiple times before it got to it’s “saved” state. But by then, it’s already too late. People that quit 5-10+ years ago aren’t coming back.

And I’m arguing the game was never completely fixed. Blizzard has introduced problem after problem after problem while attempting to fix Diablo 3. Yes, some things are better now than ever before, but there are so many other issues that still makes Diablo 3 a worse ARPG game than say Diablo 2, Path of Exile, etc. And it will show. It will show in their earnings reports. It will show in the sale of the expansion. It will show if Blizzard does not release a 2nd Diablo 4 expansion due to poor sales for the first Diablo 4 expansion if not enough people want to come back to the game and play it, or if it gets bad reviews. And then are you going to defend the game still?

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Endless Paragon was a horrible design.
Both for making the progression meaningless.
But also for making the “choice” meaningless. When you can get all the nodes, there is no meaningful choice in it.

That would be fine yeah.

To be fair, it was also the least successful D3 expansion ever.

According to reporting it started in 2016.

Honestly don’t care anymore, enjoy your WoD (World of Diablocraft) game

I mean since day 1 after release arguably EVERYHTING was done in a wrong way (I can guarantee that for at least 2-3 seasons if literally everything was done in the other direction we’d have had a better game)

The only true good changes were loot rework, and frankly I’m not sure even that may stand against the test of time as is

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I’m in favor of a last frame with infinite progression, as long as it doesn’t have an increase in power. We could go to a last frame that repeats at the end of it. guaranteed etc.

Make the infinite paragon happen in D4 blizz, take my money. :+1:

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Maybe there shouldn’t be so much power creep and that slower progression is ok as a lesson learned for d4.

Endorsing cheaters if you like a game to continually progress? Just…wow….

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Agreed. They sped combat up instead of slowing it down. They chose dumb, blunt, instant combat instead of slower to allow for deeper, deliberative, and more complex systems.

An expansion is a great excuse to reset the pace of the game, but I am not expecting them to do that.

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This is misleading. The only thing returning is the separation of character levels from paragon levels. The D4 paragon is still going to be used for paragon boards and glyphs. It’s still going to be per-character and still going to be capped, from what we know.

I mean, can’t you reach that now in D4?

I think characters should have an end state, where they are done with normal progression and any further improvements are small additive bonuses that asymptotically approach perfection.

I think any infinite account progression should be confined to Eternal, so that there’s always a place where people who haven’t been playing forever can compete.

I’m indifferent to whether or not they create a system that allows Eternal accounts to benefit from the total accumulated XP of all characters that have been made, seasonal or not. Could be interesting but mostly won’t affect me because I play seasonal. Only effect would be if it became cool enough to draw me into Eternal.