I’m pretty sure it’s additive. Also, whether it’s multiplicative or additive has nothing to do with whether there’s a cap… which there isn’t.
Yeah, but WW attacks super fast. You’re going to proc that freeze or stun on a lot of mobs in density, fast. It’s actually better that the % isn’t that high, that way you aren’t building up their CC resist as fast.
What? No.
What’s that got to do with APDs vs Mortick’s? Every WW variant has big trouble killing elites, even using Furnace. Which bracer you take isn’t going to make any difference. Once you’ve killed the trash, you either need to leave that elite behind, or tow them to new density. More than 90% of your total damage output comes from density-based mechanics: Bloodshed and Area Damage. Trying to kill that elite standing alone is a recipe for failure.
Pretty good on RGs with adds, totally useless otherwise.
Now look, I’m not saying that the highest WW clears won’t eventually use Mortick’s. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. But as of RIGHT NOW, the highest WW clears have used APDs. If this bracer were as useless as you make it out to be, those players would have been dead, dead, dead.
I think that’s pretty much the bottom line: lots of great players have used APDs, to good effect. APDs are good. Mortick’s is also good. If you want to use Mortick’s instead of APDs, go right ahead.
I don’t know what else to tell you, other than to say again that if what you’re saying were true, nobody ever would have been able to clear above GR 120 or so with WW.
Same thing with CoE leapquake. Arch did 130 with just APDs for defense. No BoM, no Esoteric. Obviously, he’s getting a lot of mitigation from APDs.
This “20% on average” stuff is nonsense. You can’t have an average when the number of mobs near you, and the number of stunned/frozen mobs, is always changing. Doesn’t make any sense.
Not sure why there’s any debate about Parthans. They are, to date, the best in slot bracer for WW.
Could Mortick’s take over for the Crimson variant? It’s possible, but I’m not convinced–and won’t be until I see some clears with them.
Parthans do not cap. They provide more mitigation than any item in the game, including Band of Might. Yes, they take some careful monitoring, and yes, they require you to manage your CC applications, but they’ve been the go-to bracer for a reason.
They do not provide “20% on average.” I don’t know where you got that nonsense, much like the nonsense about “useless vs RGs.” This is WW we’re talking about, and and it’s always going to require fishing, including for RGs.
APDs require good attention to detail and alternating between mobs to keep the most you can stunned.
But APDs do not have a cap. You multiply your incoming damage by 0.88 for each enemy giving you a buff from Parthans. Because it is multiplicative, you’ll never reach 100% damage reduction. But if you have 10 enemies?
1,000,000 damage
80% reduction from Armor/Resistances
200,000 damage
50% from Wastes
100,000 damage
50% from Ignore Pain
50,000 damage
25% from Mantle of Channeling
37,500 damage
12% from 10 enemies giving Parthans (72% damage reduction)
O/c you must have any defence then @GR130!
I using BoM - so I go SAB for some more offence, since I almost never dying while pushing, but haven’t enough damage
When changing BoM to APD - diametrically different story begins…
@10k Plvl. Not sure if he needs APD ever at this lvl…
Ok, we obviously need to set up an in-game test to see if we can determine whether APDs are additive or multiplicative.
Best way I can think of is probably to use a Necro to lure some enemies to those shock towers in pandemonium fortress, then pop land of the dead to freeze everything, and see whether the damage taken from shock is zero or not.
There technically is a cap and that would be how many monsters you can squeeze into 25 yards. You need to remember 25 yards in this game isn’t very big.
It is not like you can fill up a screen and have all those monsters providing you with damage reduction.
We get that, they have also had a looooooong time to do so. The new items haven’t been out long and time will tell which is better. This does not negate the fact that they do cap out. I am not saying which is better or worse since there hasn’t been enough time to work that out. I will say it is obviously better for the lower levels of pushing which WW struggled with before.
WW build went from needing damn near perfect gear to even think about pushing to now just needing okay gear to reach 114. I don’t know about you but I play on season and I barely pump 40-80 hours into a season so this means I have just been given another build to play with. WW for HC was always a no go for me.
APDs are almost assuredly multiplicative unless something recent has changed.
I did spend a night trying to get a good map with lots of density to show I don’t have problems in single player. I did not get any good maps though. I’ve been having crappy luck with GRs. (That was the night I made the vacation from Barbarian post actually). Probably made 20 GRs and the best maps I could’ve maybe used were Core of Arreat maps with mediocre density. But since my character is so weak, I can barely stay alive long enough to really pull any mobs.
And so unfortunately it’s low priority for me to prove this. Like I said a couple weeks ago. I work 50 hours. I’m in grad school. I got other things to worry about. I’ll revisit it down the road. But I’d much rather use my D3 time pushing my Sader or leveling my gems. But I’ll get some BK Swords again where I can roll off the damage and open a GR90 like I did last time. Not sure when though.
Well, now you’re just being silly. That’s not what anybody means when they say that something has a cap. A cap is like Saffron Wrap’s “20 enemies max”.
For the record, you can fit at least 30 enemies into a circle with a 10 yard radius, which means you can fit at least 180 enemies into a circle with a 25 yard radius.
Finally found source here: [Google + AncientParthanCount]
Don’t understand Chinese well enough, but the pic speaks for itself
The number of stunned mobs and APD DR in real time
“20% on average” (= couple of mobs) are numbers that I saw in someone’s video (not for the entire rift, but for a single [enduring] battles in [good] density)
I think it’s a Memory data read (as other cheating stuff, have to warn once again that it’s against EULA) - not for discussion here, just for some info only (if it’s forbidden by the rules - lmk, I will del it)
Well, maybe they coded it wrong. It just doesn’t make sense.
First off, with just two stunned/frozen mobs, even if the bracers turn out to be multiplicative, that would still give you 22.56% mitigation. There’s no way you’re going to be sitting in high density and have only two guys stunned/frozen. Just watch one of Wroboss’s videos and see for yourself, there are plenty of mobs who are white and standing still, i.e. frozen.
And again, there just cannot be an “average” for something like this that makes any sense. If you have 150 enemies within 25 yards, the mitigation’s going to be high, and if you have 1 enemies within 25 yards, it’s going to be low.
Also, let me repeat that if Wroboss or the Chinese player who cleared 130 were getting 20% defense from APDs, they never would have made it through those rifts.
Exactly right!
O/c at the beginning of the fight that numbers were high - then goes low (immune, dead, etc)
A kinda fading sine wave
No any crowd that stays alive forever
But the fewer mobs around - the less mitigation we need
It’s normal
For Wroboss / Chinese player / everyone
Even if just 22.56% - always much better than nothing
Btw "average” far not “always”
And you have to understand that the more fight lasting - the more mobs dying - the less crowd around - the less numbers are
So there’s nothing extraordinary in that “20% on average”…
K, Rage, thx, got your point, sry, my bad that I started it again, let’s close APD discussion since it’s nothing similar with Topic