Why Personal Loot, Item Filters, and Charm Inventory will ruin Diablo 2

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
21

Boosting exist because people have literally made 100s of characters and have played through this game 100s of times.

If I make a new character and have gear waiting for it that is guaranteed to be better than any drop I will get playing through and walking through the game why would I not just do boss runs for xp?

Notice in this scenario I would be indifferent to giving up drops because I ALREADY have them for that character.

The examples you guys are using for why personal loot is beneficial just don’t strike me as things people would say if they were able to gear a character without handouts or buying items. It doesn’t solve the issues you’ve brought up a lot of the issues at all

Again, I’m assuming D2R will not start out with a huge bot problem.

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22

Hi BusE and welcome to the D2R forums. Currently, Blizzard plans to have FFA (Free For All) loot in D2R as was the case in D2. Blizzard has also stated that they are willing to make additional changes to game based on player feedback.

Among D2R forum posters and fans, the loot system has been the subject of considerable conversation. There are 3 major ideas:

  1. Keep FFA loot
  2. Replace FFA loot with personal loot
  3. Have multiplayer parties select either FFA or personal loot for that game session

I am in camp 3. I want player who are passionate about FFA to have that choice. I want players who prefer personal loot to have that choice. I want a compromise that is a win-win.

To clarify, the OP is mistaken in how personal loot works. It does not lead to as a much as 8X total drops. Irrespective of the loot system, the total number of items drops does not vary based on the loot system selected. A longer explanation is:

I know I quoted you as a compliment in that you saw through the false narrative of 8x drops. Sorry for the cross-wires.

I suspect almost everyone posting on the D2R forum has experienced D2. Therefore, contrasting viewpoints are simply that among the D2 fan base.

Some may consider D2 perfect. Many D2 fans see that D2 has its flaws like everyone video game on the market. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder it is not a universal truth. I am a true diablo fan. If all true D2 fans thought that the game was perfect as is, there would not be the robust modded D2 game community that exists today.

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23

We discussed it with others earlier that servers could have the option to run eaitrher shared or personal loot, then people could enjoy best of both. You could still do you chaos/baal runs to boost, and those who prefer to stay away from that could just join personal loot servers.

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24

And once again you take everything so literally that nobody can have a meaningful conversation with you. I already stated earlier that saying this remaster would be a perfect version of the original didn’t literally mean perfect

I could say the sky is blue and you would argue that it changes color depending on the time and the clouds are white and gray.

Instead of understanding that the sky is blue you take it to a whole new level to argue. I think you argue just because you like to argue. And therefore I think it would be fair to assume that you are not helping as much as you may think

Go ahead, critique this too. See if I made any grammatical or spelling errors if you want.

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25

Not here to advocate either way, because either way I will adapt, BUT

If preserving the economy is the main goal of keeping shared drops, won’t removing the massive amount of 24/7 bots remove FAR more drops than implementing a personal loot drop would add?

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26

We all know you’re… I’ve never seen anyone spam so much … Spamming on every topic possible to tell us your idea about doing selective personal loot vs shared loot.

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27

I will also adapt.

My gripe with personal loot is that personal loot will not come stand alone. It will come with a change to how loot is dropped and the advocates don’t seem to care.

The game has been played without heavy botting and with a big player base its still fun with drop rates as they are now. There’s not too much reason to tinker with the secret sauce.

These ninja looting scenarios do not happen nearly as much as everyone griping here would have you believe unless all you play is boss runs which you should not be doing with expectation of loot drops

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28

I also said that Diablo 2 is an experience many people haven’t experienced. When was i talking about D2 fans or their views?

I am simply saying that keeping the game as close to the original as possible will allow new players to experience it the same way as the original

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29

Why does a new player need to experience the game same way as the original? Why not have the new player experience an improved version of the game?

And when you say “original”, do you mean the first patch of D2 and D2:Lod respectively or after several patched?

The D2R General discussion has ~510 threads. I have posted in 20 (less than 4%).

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30

Yup

31

i cant like the OP;s post whe he combines these things

yes personal loot would be terrible.

but really, you “enjoy” have to waste time sorting through mounds of crap on the floor, and you think a cleaner easier to read environment would be a determent?
i really dont know what to tell you this is lunacy…

and charm inventory we have been over 100x times
and i keep hearing the same BS story about " its a trade off"

no its not, im sorry. if u think it’s a trade off then you flat out don’t understand how certain builds work.

yeah there are builds that wont run skillers at max build because +1 to that skill might not really change much. and sure you might not fill your inventory with charms becuase for that build they dont add enough. and in that case yeah you
“could” consider that a “trade off”.

but even that is pushing it. because if skiller add pretty much nothing damage wise then there is no point using them.

just like there is no point running a 1-18 lightning damage gc.

not every build runs “max charms” and not every buidl that does runs max skillers

if i was going to build “rabies” or fireclaws" where my damage is heavly based off my skill lvl i will ALWAYS runs skill GC’s

but if im am doing feral+ fury if i am shooting for 5 frames and not using a slower 2 handed maul then there is no real reason to bring fury from say llvl 35 to 42… sure it does add more damage but i what i really need is resistances becuase a lack of a shield with my 2 hander bring me much lower, especially if i am not using EBOTD which gives all res.

sure there may be some case somwhere in the game that having an +1 extra skiller from a charm inventory instead of having the cube in inventory makes a noticeable difference.

but chamr inventory is just a “qol” change… people want to pick up items… and NO ONE is willing to sacrifice comepltly free stats IF those stats actually make a reasonable difference.

you sure the term “tradeoff” when yeah you may be trading an “announce” for a massive increase to clear speed on the build that run max skill charms and have them.

but a trade off consists of a “trade”
that means you need to make a meaningful choice that has a impact i the game
the scenarios you are describing aren’t “trade offs” their “rip offs”.

if u want extra inventory space and u clear at half the speed, sure that your choice… but it still a STUPID choice.

and D2 isn’t “balanced” for the “stupid” players.

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32

That doesn’t work swiftkitten.

You are acknowledging the trade off and ignoring it at the same time.

You said by having all charms in your inventory you can clear faster, but then mention how not being able to pick up items is what is slowing you down. Do you not understand that is precisely what a trade off is?

Not trying to be a jerk there and not saying that its a good trade off, but people calling it a trade off are using that term correctly. I would rather be able to pick up a few more items than the power increase from a skiller since it saves me time.

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33

Seriously MicroRNA is more of a pedantic spammer than anything else

I think that’s totally fair to say given his responses are critical more of the way people say their opinion rather than critiquing their actual opinion.

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34

i mean having it to put stuff in cube may slow by down by maybe 2-5 second per run but save the addition of skillers me 30-second to 1 min?

thats not really a “tradeoff”

and no those aren’t “real numbers” i didnt do the math i havent played on bnet for over 3 years i dont remember the exact ratio anymore.

but the amount of time you lose for having to put them in the cube when you find something work picking up is sub-atomic when compared to the astronomical overall time you SAVE by having max charms.

for it to be a “trade off” it would need to be something a reasonable person would consider a fair trade.

saying its a “trade off” is like trying to trade a ptopaz for an enigma…

i mean yeah technically, you gain 5 spaces in your inventory if engima was in your inventory instead, but realistically??? there is no “trade off”

to even try to “argue” its a “trade off” just flat out mean u completely lack any understanding how huge the actual difference skillers would make in most builds IS… because its LAUGHABLE to even consider how much time you would be wasting doing farming runs otherwise.

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35

Here are more examples for shared loot only game, personal loot only game, or both. In any of these examples the “total” drops stay the same and add up to 100% of all the loot that drops between players whether it’s shared loot, personal loot, or both.

Shared Loot game:
In current D2 a max of 8 players can be in a game. If they are all killing Baal then as far as a percentage each player would have a 1/8 chance of getting an item/items give or take because some people will be close melee, and others ranged. But we all know that a ranged character can still run up and have a chance at getting the loot. The number of players in a game would change the percentage. 7 players = 1/7 chance. 6 = 1/6 chance. 5 = 1/5 chance. 4 = 1/4 chance. 3 = 1/3 chance. 2 = 1/2 chance. 1 = 1/1 chance.

Personal Loot game:
If D2:R was changed to personal loot only: Max of 8 players in a game. If they are all killing Baal then as far as a percentage each player would have a 1/8 chance of getting an item/items. The number of players in a game would change the percentage. 7 players = 1/7 chance. 6 = 1/6 chance. 5 = 1/5 chance. 4 = 1/4 chance. 3 = 1/3 chance. 2 = 1/2 chance. 1 = 1/1 chance. The reason the percentage is the same as the above shared loot game is that instead of having a free for all shared loot, you instead have a random chance of getting loot based on the percentage, but the “total” drops will still be the same and add up to 100% of all the loot that dropped if it was a shared loot game.

Shared Loot, and personal loot game:
Let’s look at an example of a D2: R game with 4 people(2 with shared loot, and 2 with personal loot). If they are all killing Baal then as far as a percentage each player with personal loot would have a 1/4 chance of getting an item/items. Each player with shared loot would have a 1/4 chance of getting an item/items, but would have to contend with the other shared loot player instead of having a random chance for loot like the personal loot players. Everyone in this example still has a 25% chance of getting loot, but distributed differently between free for all shared loot, and personal loot. The “total” drops will still be the same and add up to 100% of all the loot that dropped if it was a shared loot game only, or a personal loot game only.

Personally if I had to choose one of these 3 it would still be the original D2 shared loot. It has been that way for 20 years, and I can see it being that way for another 20 years in D2: R! Also, for me it is just more fun, and a great part of what makes D2 the way it is! :smiley:

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36

I have a feeling personal might be coming. I’ve been trying to find information on how controllers works with Diablo 3, and most of what I have seen, is press the action button when over the loot. Nothing for a button that displays what loot is on the ground. I’ve seen videos on people using those old controller programs like joypad or whatever to get the original game running on controller, to mixed results. I think that due to limitations of differences to how controllers react vs mouse and keyboard, this is probably something that they are looking to implement while using the same loot mechanic dropping formula, which has been figured somewhere in this forum to be about 6 players worth of loot in an 8 player game. Instead of one instance where 6 players worth drops, each player would have their own instance of 6 players worth of loot.

Which leads to another reason why that they might be doing 3 month ladders, since we know that this will lead to more loot, even if not exactly an exponitional rate of high quality loot like in D3; reset the economy faster. First thing I thought of at Blizzcon when they announced controller support was instanced loot. Some people might be mighty angry. I’ve tried to see how loot toggles in all the videos from Blizzcon as well as other youtube videos, but they never show the mouse pointer nor a display of loot on the ground.

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37

I agree, a lot of people are saying that I am wrong to say there would be double or more loot from personal drops but I am going off of how Diablo 3 currently is and that is a system I think would destroy diablo 2.

However if there had to be a personal loot system then the way you described it would be the best way to do it.

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38

I think a big fear with instanced loot is the fear of D3s implementation of it where drops were under tuned drastically in vanilla to favor auction houses then overturned drastically in loot 2.0 which prompted bind on account. No one wants that.

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39

well diablo 3 had more loot so idk what to tell you. I’m just going off of the games i’ve played and this isn’t wow or PoE. I am simply using diablo 3 personal loot system as an example of what they could possible implement in diablo 2 resurrected and why that would be horrible

40

You are absolutely correct. The item drop rate and the item drop system (FFA, personal, or timed) are different. Global loot and personal loot drop systems can have the exact same total drop rate.

D3 in fact proves that the drop rate and the drop loot system do not mean the same thing. D3 and D3:RoS have always had personal loot system. The drop rate of early D3 is much lower than late.

Some do not understand that drop rate does not equal the loot drop system that we have discussed about how the items are distributed between players. The loot drop system does not define the loot drop rate.

If this is your concern, you are miscommunicating what change would be “horrible”. You do not want the D2R developers to change the total drop rate in D2R. The loot drop system is a separate consideration relevant to the total drop rate.

Blizzard has already announced that D2R seasons will be shorter. As a result, there will be less time to build a character and collect gear. This likely will impact the D2R, resulting in feedback leading to changes after launch.