Where are the DH players?

General Discussion
348

If I’m completely honest, until about season 13 maybe 12, I was complete rubbish. Got invited into a clan after powerleveling a couple of guys and most of them played DH.

First, they taught me how to do some Conquests. The following Season, they taught me how to complete the Journey through Guardian. And after that, it was gear tips and playstyle tips.

Over time, I became a lot better. Maybe I’m underestimating myself because of how bad I was not to long ago relatively speaking.

Edit:

Getting to that DR for UE, before I went all ham trying to min/max the Gizzard Shield, I could get my sheet toughness to 1.5 to 1.75 billion toughness because of the way Yang’s and Crimson’s work together. That was nearly double of what I could get before Crimsons.

Someone explained to me once that doubling your toughness equates to roughly 30GR of improvement toughness wise. Before Crimson’s I was having trouble getting to or past GR100.

But now, I’m running 115 somewhat easily, though I haven’t ran it in quite some time and I’m having trouble repeating that 116 clear I did a while back. It runs similar to 117 where I can get the Grift Guardian to spawn but have trouble killing it before the time expires, though I’m not fishing nearly as hard as the first time I cleared it and that might be difference.

Point is, maybe the DR increase of UE wouldn’t have to be really huge. Perhaps a buff to 65% to 70% over the 60% we he have now would be enough. Don’t know just a guess.

349

Would there be any value to removing the link to Discipline on this set and having a flat damage multiplier.

That way maybe freeing up some secondary rolls for extra resistances?

1 Like
350

nah, not buying it. There is no need for it. Other classes have stunning skills and they’re not affected by this mechanic.

351

I disagree - the top players are what, like 1% or less of all players? Why should such a minority get the benefit of any changes? Changes should benefit the majority, not the minority.

352

Because, when we speak about competition, everyone wants to be #1 and everyone remembers #1 guy.

If you are truly competitive your goal should be to be #1 not #10000.

If you are not competitive why balance of LBs would bother you?

Balance competition around someone who don’t give a F about competition?

If they change around top players other players could benefit also.

1 Like
353

With all due respect, I am competitive, more competitive than most on here. Top 15 globally s13-s15 (PS4, SC). With the 2.6 patch buffs, solo players got heavily screwed, as paragon was now paramount to pushing higher GRs due to the benefits to toughness and recovery that it gives. Group players can and do push higher now because of much higher paragon than myself. I find it amusing that solo LBs allowing group earned benefits to be used on them, making them not truly solo. I can’t compete with the group players with higher paragon because of paragon - not because of skill. Even now, I’m still in the top 50 globally - well I was last season (121 clear with p1200). This season, I have abandoned SC and enjoying HC (rank 7 thank you very much). Guys with lower paragon can match the guys with high paragon, or come close. A lot of the guys who push high on the LBs ONLY do so because of paragon. Take that away from them, and they’d be a helluva lot lower on the LBs.

Do I have the time to spend 18 hours a day playing D3 and grinding? Nope. Do I have that inclination? Nope. I’m an adult, working, and with a life and I refuse to allow a game to dominate my life to such a degree.

edit: I think you missed my point that the devs should cater the game to the majority and not the minority. If they buff builds presuming p5000 (99% of players have nowhere near this much paragon in NS!), then that means said buffs will be under powered for everyone with lower paragon. I fail to see how that is helpful to the majority of players. The longevity of this game revolves around make it an enjoyable experience for the majority of players - take that away and you’ll always see players leaving the game en masse. Not a good thing for a gaming company to see with their products imho.

2 Likes
354

I completely agree with you. That is why I said skill and gear. Did not mention Paragon.

Edit: If you have more skill and better gear than #1 guy who has 10K Paragons that means it is better for you to balance around him because you are better player than he is.

2 Likes
355

Skill and gear cannot always make up GR clears for the average player though. Whilst I’m at the pointy end of the LBs on a regular basis, I try and think of the small guys who play casually but want to try and push as high as possibly with little effort to get gratification from the game. That’s why I want Blizzard to balance changes for players with much lower paragon (p1600 is a very fair paragon point imho). If the buffs are applied evenly, at p1600, for every character class/build, then it won’t make any difference - it’ll be balanced, but more players will get more benefit out of the buffs…you keep more people happy, you keep more players, the healthier the player base is.

edit: just saw your edit and agree with you wholly too. I think we want the same thing in general, I just think p5000 is too high a point to be basing balance points on.

356

For #1 guy:
You know he has big enough reason to push hard.
You know he used many keys for his record.
You know he has good gear.
You know he knows how to play his build.

Can you say the same about average 1600 Paragon guy?

If they balance around this #1 guy and you have more skill and better gear. You will reach your maximum potential at your Paragon level in less time.

Define “casual”. LB only have 1000 spots per class. If player base was big enough there would be no place on LB for any casual players.

Right now you have many casual players on LBs already.

357

From a view of seasonal player yes. But from the view of non season player not at all. I am at 5K Paragons now and I did not play the game at all for extended periods of time. If I played supports I would be able to gain ~40 Paragons per day right now. Would be Paragon 6K in no time.

358

The problem with balancing any class but us specifically around the top paragon performers is we haven’t been in the meta for a very very long time.

So no there won’t be tons of DH mains at 10,000 paragon and who’s saying a 10,000 paragon player knows the same about the class as someone that’s played all their time on DH and has say 4000 or 4500 paragon because they don’t play in groups at all because of personal choice or that choice being taken away from them because they aren’t in the meta.

There are tons of DH’s that consider themselves casual, like myself, but might be underestimating their skill at the game like I probably am.

Point is, who knows what anybody else would do with 10,000 paragon or even 5000 paragon if they can’t reach it because they don’t play other classes or won’t dedicate themselves to the game because there’s no point because even if dedicated their class can’t play the game like everyone else.

Just sayin’.

1 Like
359

Casual, is someone who simply may play an hour or so a day. They may or may not play with a defined “build”. Hitting the LBs isn’t critical for them, they play to enjoy the game. I think enjoying the game is something that many players could learn how to do. Having mega paragon doesn’t mean you’re enjoying the game imho.

I’m p2600 NS, and I’ve been playing since seasons came to consoles (s10). I rarely play my NS character(s) because when seasons end, I want a break from the game. I’d favour shorter seasons and longer breaks between them personally in order to avoid potential burn out. I generally only get to p1200/1300 in seasons, because I simply do not play enough hours, and I’m a solo player. We all know that solo players get far less paragon than group players…most of my friends on PSN have less NS paragon than me btw. True, PS4 is more than likely far different to the PC game and is perhaps not a good example…

1 Like
360

Okay, but for me, I’ll use myself as an example.

I don’t work because I’m on Social Security Disability, but not because of anything physical. I have a wife, but no kids. At the beginning of Seasons, I play somewhere between 34 and 42 hours split either between 2 or 3 days.

Thanks to my mental illness, there’s times that I might be awake for between 24 and 36 hours at a time. I could dedicate myself to this game because the Diablo Series is the only video games I’ve ever played, I’m serious, the only ones.

In season 18, I played up to almost paragon 1300 in that first month, all solo. Then some life stuff happened like a couple of wedding I had to go to within the span of a week. All the drinking and stuff that went on that week, I spent quite a few days just recovering, lol. And so, I stopped playing that season.

But what I’m saying is, if I wanted to, I could probably get to around 3000, 4000, or perhaps 5000 paragon in a season even with the minor interferences of outside life.

I’m not a casual in the normal sense of the word. I consider myself something different. I’m what I like to call a “dedicated casual”. I say that, because if other folks had the time to play this game like I do, they’d probably be able to achieve the same if not more than I do in this game.

This season, I basically played to complete the Season Journey on all three regions in about a week and a half and then returned to non season but I only spend a few hours a day now playing in short spurts.

I guess, what I’m saying is I could be more dedicated to the game if I wanted to but I just don’t because I don’t play in groups almost at all.

I don’t really know why I typed all that out, but I think you and I play the game in a similar fashion. Yet, I only have a little less than 2500 paragon.

4 Likes
361

Look at our #1 build, N6 Rapid Fire, upper 137+ for a higher paragon player, barely GR120 for 2000 paragon due to survival. The build does not take CoE at low paragon, instead it takes Unity/Elusive, and esoteric alteration. At 4000 paragon, players can make CC3 work for extra damage and possibly drop Esoteric. Past that it is near full offense.

That gives a high paragon player three advantages:

  1. Offensive legendary effect (+3 GRs)
  2. Better legendary gem (+2 GRs)
  3. Paragon Damage (+n GRs)

The 2000 paragon player needs defense, or the build just won’t work.

There is a catch 22 to balance:

Take the other extreme LoD Rapid Fire, a very tanky build, the lower paragon player can make this work, high paragon players do not get good trades, so it results in a smaller GR ceiling gap across paragon.

So defensive builds, with little to no offensive trades are best for the game from a solo leaderboards perspective, but crappy for 4-man groups because there is nothing to swap out for extra damage.

When we solo with pure glass cannon builds, we do not become stronger when joining groups. This is Multishot.

Regarding Capt Crimson, DHes were happy with CC3 because it made a favorite, very punishing build easier in push (Multishot). But the masses do not push Multishot, instead they pick Impale because it doesn’t require fishing and it has better survival.

The leaderboards became harder to climb when impale players returned to the scene because Impale was usable in 140 speeds. At that point, players who grinded 4-man meta, rat runs or botted acquired very significant paragon 6k+, too much to be countered with player skill.

I can assure you that the leaderboards will be very hard to climb after DH gets its next buff, popularity brings the competition. The game needs all types of builds: tanky and glass, but it will be very hard to balance them across all spectrums of paragon.

Blizzard knows this, and that is why 5k is a good number, it means the balance will not fluctuate as much at 8k versus 2k. In the N6 RF example, the 5k player takes into account that extra CoE damage, but the lower paragon player should be using LoD in the first place.

5 Likes
362

Does anyone remember explanation why we are not able to dual wield daggers/swords?

363

Impale is not only more consistent (less fishing) but it is also a bit stronger.

364

It was something to do with going against the fantasy of the class or something like that. There’s some coding that comes with that too because of us being able to dual wield hand X-bows.

I think.

365

Looks like were in two places at once! lol. I posted a similar thought on the PTR forums.

1 Like
366

I think they are dead even from a solo push standpoint.

UE6 Multi w/ Broadside can push the meter fast in a thick map. I am no stutter stepper, but was able to experience this when I pushed.

Getting to GR127-128 would take 500+ keys for sure, and some pylon luck.

1 Like
367

This was a funny thread. I liked the empty block quotes.

1 Like