S29 patch notes:
- the WD class has been removed from the game
- the WD class now comes in the form of a non-combat pet that will follow you and curse enemies with voodoo (note: voodoo has no effect on the enemy)
S29 patch notes:
Right!! When I read that quote from Blizzard even I who’s almost never touched a WD in my life said ‘uhm …no they don’t, that’s the season power lol’.
Such an odd statement to make when it was so clear they’d be screwed without the seasonal power and with it wasn’t even that great to begin with, it was like minimum tier S with the power tbh in comparison.
@Rage what does an “adjusted clear” mean?
I love WD doctor. For the last few season, I started pushing all WD sets whenever the leaderboard resets because I like the different game play of each set.
Whether WD can do 150 isn’t really that interesting. It’s just a bigger number that doesn’t really make a difference in solo pushing gameplay. The less OP, the less players there are which is fine with me.
At this point, the devs could do the easy thing and buff some numbers on the 6-piece bonus of each set and maybe a numbers adjustment on some weapons and off-hands and WD could do some higher GRs.
As a huge WD fan, I would prefer they get rid of the Ring of Emptiness and add that damage to the sets instead.
I haven’t had time to test the Mundu numbers buff in non-season yet. I just want the 6-piece number to be high enough that I can speed run 90 second GR90s using Rachels Ring and not needing the Ring of Emptiness
For most long time WD players like myself, it’s a clunky mechanics issue, not a tuning issue. The WD class is a mountain of band-aids that turns it into a mildly playable mess at best. The primary offensive band-aid is ring of emptiness for all builds except for fetishes. The primary defensive band-aid is soul harvest + languise + lakumba for all builds.
As of this season I just can’t stand it anymore and gave up on the class. In the S27 to S28 transition I geared my WD up for mundungu and immediately became semi-ill when I realized yet again “Oh right I need to locust swarm every damn time or I’ll do trivial damage”, and stopped my S28 WD aspirations right there.
I’ll stick to other classes like DH and wizard that get a mountain of offensive and defensive powers by just playing their builds without jumping through fiery hoops like a circus clown.
some came to US… majority gone to Asia region… closer/lower ping for CN players
All those people who were “RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE why is the theme nerfed!!!”
This is why. Even a nerfed theme and people are doing 5 minute clears at a not high paragon at all. Not like there is much in terms of time trailing there to do anymore.
And so much for “Just play with more classes and builds” since every class (Sorry Witch Doctors) is doing them already. Looks like people who play a decent amount are going to have a set a goal of “How many builds can I get to 150” and not will I do it or how long will it take. This is madness.
At this point I would almost be ashamed if I don’t get a 150 since my chosen class is doing it in less than ten minutes at around 500 lower paragon than I will reach at the lowest.
No surprise there, still going to keep playing WD though.
You gonna do one at season end for each set, Rage?
Hey Idolis, I don’t know if you’ve heard, but I’m leaving Diablo 3, and the Diablo franchise in general, sometime in April. So I won’t be around for Season’s end.
But, @dmkt#1267 might be up for doing a set of numbers, no harm in asking.
When (nearly) every build is doing 150, I’m not sure how meaningful that will be.
At that point the adjustment will heavily favour clear time.
So at a certain point it becomes more about which builds can move quickly through the rift, instead of comparing the actual power level of the builds.
It may still have some value for comparing some of the lower end sets that aren’t just cruising through 150s at 5k paragon, but at the high end I’m not sure it would really reflect actual power level differences between the top tier builds, because those will all be doing speed 150s at 5k.
When all the top 150 runs are using turbohud, who does any of this matter?
I just wanted to point out that I never thought I’d see the day we could say this sentence with a straight face.
Rage, ty for all that info and work. Very interesting and cool to see those stats. Great work man, thank you for your all the effort it took to make that happen!
Yes, that’s a good point. Apache brought that up earlier.
I do wonder a bit about how that will all shake out, because the GR tier boost from the altar comes in a few different “flavors”. You’ve got additions of basically flat damage that add a few tiers, then other stuff that can add different amounts of damage to different builds, like resource on crit and extra move speed, and then still other stuff that is very RnG dependent, like which Triune circle you get when you press your potion, and where it spawns, and also what Shrine or Pylon power you get from each use of the potion, and what order those appear in.
The buffs from the Altar that are consistent and “always on” probably amount to +6-7 tiers. That’s the % damage buffs, the boss damage, the elite damage, the elemental damage, the extra orb from elites, and the extra toughness, which lets us pick up still more damage. And, right now, the largest of the gains I’m seeing in all those clears listed in the OP is right at about that level: both Tal Wiz and Raekor Barb are at +6.9 tiers above their State of Set ratings.
People haven’t even really been pushing yet, for the most part. For instance, a lot of people playing Tal, I think, are often downing 150 on the first good map they see, with little or no fishing taking place.
I guess… there’s going to be a sort of “buffering” that will happen for a lot of builds, due to how Area Damage works, as well as other Area-Damage-like abilities, like BR: Bloodshed for Barbs. One way of looking at those effects is that they let you spend time to increase your damage. Or you could say that you invest damage in the present to earn a bigger return in the future!
Example: you’ve got 10 mobs you want to kill. If you just shoot at them, you’ll kill them just with your direct damage, and it’ll take 100 hits (let’s say they all have 10000 life, and you do 100 damage per hit). And, you shoot fast, 5x/second, so that’ll take 20 seconds.
But, you’ve also got 100% AD on your gear. If you spend 5 seconds pulling those 10 mobs into a little pile, you’ll then do 100 “base” damage per shot, plus 100 * 1.0 (AD%) * 0.2 (AD proc chance) * 9 (adjacent mobs) = 180 extra damage, or a total of 280 per shot, at which point it’ll only take you 36 shots, or 7.2 seconds to kill them. Adding in the 5 seconds for grouping, that’s still only 12.2 seconds, reducing your kill time by 39% compared to just shooting at them without grouping.
But, what if your base damage were tripled? Then you’d do 300 per hit, and it would take you only 34 shots / 6.8 seconds to kill those mobs just by shooting at them. 5 seconds of grouping would then make you deal 300 + (300 * 1 * 0.2 * 9) = 840 damage per hit, and you’d kill them in 12 shots / 2.4 seconds, but that’s a total time of 7.4 seconds, more than if you just stuck to shooting. So with this higher damage, doing the grouping actually costs you time, i.e. it’s not worth doing.
But But But!- that also means that tripling your damage doesn’t take your kill time from 12.2 seconds to 4.1 (one third of the time), it’s still up at 7.4 seconds, about 61% of what you were at with 1x damage + grouping, i.e. getting 3x damage has not even cut your kill time in half.
So as the stronger, higher damage builds get closer to being “speed-ified”, they lose some efficiency in lowering their time compared to weaker builds where it still pays off to make groupings.
On the other hand, the clear adjuster looks at clear time decreases or increases as a %, not as a flat number. So, you get +1 tier for clearing in 12:50, compared to 15:00, which is a 2:10 difference. But you get another +1 for doing it in 11:00, compared to 12:50, which is only a 1:50 difference. And so on- you would also get +1 tier for doing a rift in 2:40 compared to doing it in 3:06, which is a 0:26 difference.
On some level, I guess I’d say that however it works out this season, speed is build strength. Or: is always a big component of build strength, anyway. There are plenty of builds, even in non-season, that can do a lot of damage, but don’t move around well, or don’t group mobs well, and that results in lower clears, both on the basic leaderboard and on the Adjusted Clear board, too.
One way or another, it’ll definitely be interesting to see what we get!
On a different but related note: Tinne, as you know, I’m not going to be around much longer. Do you want a “set of keys” for State of Set and the other “adjustment” stuff that DMKT and I have built? I have no idea what your plans regarding D3 are in the future, and please don’t think that by taking those “keys” you are obliging yourself to help update any of it going forward. Make no mistake, if you did want to do that, it would be really awesome! But: certainly not expected. Let me know.
You’re very welcome, but don’t forget to thank DMKT too. He and I built all that stuff together and I never would have gotten it all done without him.
Also, if you ever want to “adjust” your own clears, or any other clear you’re looking at, we built a tool for everybody to use: GR Clear Adjuster and Permutation Calculator - Google Sheets
You just type in the tier, paragon, and time of the clear, and the spreadsheet does the rest.
WD has made it to 150- one for Mundunugu and two for Arachyr.
Less than a week and all classes have done 150!
Make a WD with that name, just for fun.
Well even if they did, if all of them did then they all gain that same advantage and the comparative power is still seen.
If both that top Wizard and Barb clear used it you could still see which one is stronger.
So? It would have been only for this one seson, before player base plumets in to the ground. It’s good this way, but would have been better if they don’t nerf it.