Ok, so pretty close. Maybe scratch the durability change to keep it high-risk/high-reward.
My main point is that if the MI mechanics are keeping other variants from getting buffs, maybe MI can be tweaked instead.
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It’s possible. Tweaking them purposefully to deal less damage wouldn’t be the approach I would take, but The AI does need a lot of work.
Many spells aren’t cast from images more than once, or proc the FB 6pc.
Another blue update:
Looks like we’ll hear something by Friday (PDT) at the earliest.
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I’ve been advocating, in general, nerfing death wish for at least 18 months. I still think it should have been nerfed over etched sigil. Blizzard screwed the pooch. Unfortunately, Wizards need that 325% multiplier to be effective, so maybe that’s why it’s unchanged despite requests, pleas, howls and screams from Wizards.
Honestly, this is blizzard. I expect them to buff the 6 piece to 4000% damage. That’s the easy fix. In this case, it happens to be the most logical and elegant fix. Blizzard has my full support here.
Now, if only they SEE the right fix...
Make the 6 pieces bonus 4000% again just like on live and change the stack back to 100 on the 4 pieces, that would leave it in a good position. Why going through the hassle of redesigning the FB set just to get a mediocre performance out of it in the end because with the current nerf, that’s what it is- mediocre at best.
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Updated changes taken from the patch notes:
- Firebird’s Finery 2-Piece Set: Disintegrate Ignites enemies, causing them to take
7500%3000% weapon damage per second until they die. When you die, a meteor falls from the sky and revives you. This effect has a 60-second cooldown.- Firebird’s Finery 4-Piece Set: Casting Disintegrate adds Combustion stacks that reduce the cooldown of Teleport by
1%2% per stack. Stacks up to10050 times. You gain 80% damage reduction while maintaining Combustion stacks.- Firebird’s Finery 6-Piece Set: You gain
4000%2000%5000% increased damage while Ignite is applied to a target. Hitting an Ignited enemy with a non-channeling fire spell deals Ignite damage multiplied by Combustion stacks.
Developer Note: With the bulk of patch 2.7.0’s focus being on the single-player experience, we recognize that the set reworks and balance changes are some of the most impactful and important to the group play experience. We’ve heard the outpouring of feedback from the community and have decided to increase the Firebird’s Finery 6-piece bonus.
We hope these changes will allow players to explore new strategies in high-end group play compositions for Season 23. We hope you enjoy Firebird’s this season, but we will keep an eye on its power and adjust balance in the future.
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5000% on the 6 piece! This puts FB, compared to last iteration 2.7.0 PTR, at:
- -9.01 GRs
The revert of 2000% to 5000% is worth about:
- +5.65 GRs
This means:
- ~GR139@2kp for FB MI Non Shielding+EW build
- ~GR135@2kp for FB Flame Blades Furnace Build
- ~GR134@2kp for FB Flame Blades EF Build
While not listed above, the FB MI Shielding Squirt’s+Zodiac build, as featured here:
https://maxroll.gg/guides/firebird-mirror-image-wizard-guide
Should perform even better than FB MI non-shielding at higher paragons.
Rough Estimates:
FB Mirror Image should be slightly better than LoD Twister and Vyr Chantodo, in that order. These will be slightly better than FB Flame Blades though, assuming a non Shi Mizu LoD Twister build with WoF Attunement. N.B.: Casual LoD Twister is below FB Flame Blades now.
Typhon’s Veil should be just below FB Flame Blades+EF. Not sure where LoD Hydra lands nowadays.
A lot of these historically mid teir builds are higher than I was expecting due to the FoT+Nems.
Edits: Updated GR values to be more exact 51/21, not 5/2.
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9 GR nerf, still hefty, but at least it’s not Typhon.
Edit: I suck at reading, for some reason I thought there was 2% damage per stack of combustion.
Nothing changed with the 4p (compared to the notes they released earlier this week). The only thing that’s different today is the 6p.
It was like that earlier this week too. 2% teleport CDR, 50 stacks (vs. 1% teleport CDR, 100 stacks on last iteration of PTR)
And just FYI the 2% isn’t damage, it’s teleport cooldown. The only thing that matters for the damage is the total stack count (since that gets multiplied with the 6p). They just adjust the teleport CDR so that you get 100% at full stacks (2% x 50 vs. 1% x 100). The teleport CDR portion doesn’t affect damage in any way.
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While teleport cdr might not affect the damage, the combustion stacks do.
4pc: Hitting an Ignited enemy with a non-channeling fire spell deals Ignite damage multiplied by Combustion stacks (currently at 50).
Hope you guys are right, but to me at least, it just feels like looking at another hydra screw up.
The 50 stack effect was taken into account, and the math says that FB will be super powerful. I don’t feel like this is another hyrda screw up.
Highly doubt the part being super strong, but I hope I’m wrong.
No, it wasn’t, and no, it doesn’t. We can’t test what the final iteration of the patch looks like, because blizzard has been known to make undocumented fixes before. We can only infer relative strength.
Super powerful? We aren’t talking Wastes, Mundungo’s or GoD here.
Could someone remind me the top solo GR clear (and time) with “final” Firebirds version from the PTR?
With the number changes, etc… how many GR difference is the “newest version” from the “final” PTR version?
Having thought more, there is the confounder of followers affecting solo GR clears.
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So what exactly did Cratic miss in post 109 of this thread? 8K para players were doing GR150’s in 8 min with the MI build (not the bugged legacy ES one). So does GR 141 in 8 min at 8 para not seem super powerful? Are our definitions that different?
If FB doesn’t hit GR150 first day in NS I’ll be surprised.
Edit: watch this video: Diablo 3 Season 23 PTR Updated GR150 Flame Blades Firebirds Wizard - YouTube
And now imagine that it’s GR141. What builds could he do this so casually at GR141?
And, for the record, I’m not saying that the buff is bad. I’m just saying that it’ll be incredibly powerful. I’d rather have a good time with an OP build for a few seasons and then have things get balanced out.
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I can only quote my original reply to you. Maybe you’ll read it this time? Nothing against Cratic’s math, I’ve equated it in the past to witchcraft, but it is TOTALLY possible, even bordering on probable, an unintended interaction with Mirror images was/has already been fixed.
There is also this; we will to re-evaluate all builds with the addition of FoT and Nemesis.
Well, it’s possible. Keep in mind, NS has perfect gear, maxed gems, 150 augments and 10k+ paragon on day one.
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Top seasonal PTR clear (NOT in normal) was GR150 at around p3250 done by gr151 of ZD with a few augs missing, maybe on or close to last day, without a ton of rift fishing iirc, using MI, enforcer and Zeis. We were all talking about all this in Raxx’s stream trying to coax Raxx into running the build. So Raxx started going with his 8kp+ or whatever Wiz on normal using only seasonal gear, no legacy etched. He cleared like 10’ish GR150s straight w/ no problems.
Top clear in normal PTR was that 14kp+ Asian player I thought or something going fast’ish 150. Can’t remember exact time but that was w/ legacy etched. With non-legacy etched using only seasonal stuff, lots of players doing less fast GR150s but still nuts.
Rob also ran MI herding cats on last day of PTR - he was using the Obsidian high-CDR variant wtih Squirts, without enforcer. Super smooth clears. Tankier than expected even w/ clearing out his paragons.
It’s honestly just insane what these builds could do with only a couple of days seat time and not much fishing. WIth the ~9’ish GRs nerf, we’ll see where it lands but it will sure as heck be decent.
The CATS are loose.
They will do their beast business.
So it is written. So it shall be.
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If the bug with mirror images did not get fixed. 99% sure it was a bug, plus it’s already been nerfed since then. TBH, I kinda hope it was, I hate that janky unintended mechanics Wizards are always stuck with. Mirror Images shouldn’t be procc’ing Firebirds set.
So Mirror Images proc’ing with Flame Blades was a bug they may have fixed? I will avert my eyes and unsee this.
The cats shall not be denied.
(plus SB/EB w/o MI wasn’t too far behind so there’s that as well)