Exactly, players would actually play with each other. So stupid.
1 Like
There are several ways to implement it mathematically. The percents are representative but not actual to how D2 works. Simple example from 2 player game:
FFA: Each trash monster has 2% chance to drop an item. Killing 1000 trash monsters results in 20 total drops.
Personal loot. Each trash monster has 1% chance to drop an item. Killing 1000 trash monsters results in 10 personal drops for player A and 10 drops for player B. The total drops are the same between personal drops and FFA drops.
In either system, the player that makes the killing blow is irrelevant but the players need to be in physical proximity to the monster that is killed. Trading of items are also allowed just like D2 is now.
The drop percents can vary dependent on monster type (trash mobs vs. bosses, etc…)
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I call them rat-weasels. Not much different from someone stealing your slot winnings at a casino repeatedly. It is infuriating and breaks the game from a multiplayer PvE perspective. It’s always been one of the very worst aspects of the game, it encourages greed amongst strangers. Forced fairness = cooperation. This original D2 loot system encourages cheese, greed and hacks. I want to kill monsters and get gear, playing alone or with friends is the only way to do this with shared loot. Otherwise, rat-weasels abound. The original game creators imagined players actually playing together, they are supposed to synergize. Does not happen. Make it a game option, let the rat weasels screw each other over repeatedly in their own corner.
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okay so do you want 2% chance taken down to 0.25 … tons of people don’t even move during runs, they leech, are you going to account for participation in hurting enemies, if not you just gave a an 1/8th of the drops to a leech. It is no where as simple math as you think it is.
lol, well I suppose we will all just have to wait and see which way it goes
Yes it is, you essentially have the item randomness then go through 1/8 random shuffle (in 8 player game). Leeches already leech normal drops ALL THE TIME. At least they could only leech 1/8th of the possible drops this way, instead of half or more.
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That is not how it works. Why do you think it would be taken down to 0.25%.
In my example, 1000 monster kill yield 20 total drops in each secanrio.
In FFA, the 20 drops are who clicked first. If player A always clicked first, he gets all 20 itemsand player B gets none. If they are equally quick, both players get ten drops.
In personal, loot player A gets 10 drops and player B gets 10 drops. This is exactly the same as FFA where the players have similar click speed.
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But at best you get 1 good drop every 10-20 runs … now you have 1 good drop chance minus 1/8 drop chance, if everyone has the same chance as ffa you get 8 times the items in the market… see not simple.
1/8th random shuffle each creation? so if different players get in each run you could never get it, or how would that work. Again you would need to buff drop rates across the board, now not saying I’m against that but it would need to increase.
If there is only 1 good drop in 20 runs in an 8 player game, there is only one person who can get the good drop. Seven players would not get any good items in their 20 runs.
In a personal loot game, 1 player would get the good drop while seven do not. This is exactly the same as FFA game.
The difference is if you play 160 games. In personal loot games, on average you would expect all players will get a good drop once (This isn’t exactly true but lets use it as an approximation. In a FFA system, there will be eight good drops. It can turn out that all 8 players get the good drop. However if one player is faster than the rest he will get 8 good items while the other 7 players will now not get any good drops after 160 runs.
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Preposterous. There have been plenty of cogent points made across several threads that raise valid concerns against personal loot. You just refuse to acknowledge them because it’s not what you want to hear.
Most of the arguments I’ve seen that come from the camp in favor for instanced loot all appeal to boogeymen arguments - like the presence of cheaters, bugs, lag etc. which are all unintended conditions of the game. It’s a terrible argument.
We can highlight edge-cases all day if you want to go that route and just assume everyone is a bad-faith actor like you clearly do. Leeches can leech no matter what system is implemented. The difference is with instanced loot, the rat-weasel doesn’t even have to place himself in harms way. All he has to do is sit in the corner of the map with his pants down, picking his nose, waiting for you to clear the map, and then happily skip through collecting all his free loot, possibly even the best item of the run! The only difference is that you didn’t have a chance to see or do anything about it… Much better! Let’s all dilute our drops for people like that. Brilliant!
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I just say find 7 friends and figure it out like everyone did before… the pub runs were when no one was on. I can see where you are coming from but dunno I never had issues.
Faster, or can teleport or uses hacks… endless ridiculous reasons to prevent people actually playing together cooperatively. Totally game ruining unless with friends.
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If you play exclusively with friends, the drop system is irrelevant (personal loot is just as good as FFA). The issue is that not everyone can play with friends. In public games, it tends to be the wild west where personal loot has significant advantages. It also discourages leeching/ninja looting/ auto-clicker hacks.
Exactly.
Personally make FFA or personal loot be selected at game creation. Win-win
The same is true for FFA. Just wait unttil the monster are near death/dying swoop in. The leecher is not focused on doing damage just clicking the item drops first.
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You honestly rolled with 7 friends? I played with at most 3-4 other people, usually one other friend that I knew personally and who I could trust. This system encourages evilness in people, when it is possible to do, people will do it. It’s why we need police and rules. The original game developers expected us to roll with groups of people, synergizing hero abilities etc. Never happened unless with 7 friends, good luck with that. Never gonna happen. Just play alone for your own drops and tell strangers to STAY BACK WHERE I AM KILLING STUFF!
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but you have the same chance as the other 8? Switching to personal loot you either increase the loot pool x8 or decrease the drop chances by 8 times to keep the market quantity the same. Now that is a different story, with dupers gone, but bots going there will be dramatically less items showing up in spurts, and in hardcore the bots will still die periodically so the pool should be even smaller, you can argue that it’s fine… but doing personal loot will require a changing of the drop rates.
Maybe it screws with the robots somhow too…
I haven’t refused to hear anything maybe your confusing me with someone else.
Reread how it works. The total drops are unchanged. It does not lead to more or less drops.
X = X/8 * 8 (Example of 8 player game)
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You aren’t counting for any factors besides the percentage drop chance… you can’t just spread that out over 8 people and say it works out … it could never be the same. Who is doing the killing, who is being rewarded… leechers are going to be wayyyy more encouraged to not do nothing if they simply stand by you and wait for their personal items. Do they need to hit the guys? … okay how much … is it not their 1/8 of the monsters or yours … this simple lets just split the math 1/8 and nothing else is different does not work.
Hell I can see builds dedicated to just staying alive so their squishy bums can stand near you and go have a drink… at least in hardcore if they had the balls to run up to the boss before he spurts he could die from his greed.