Should the GOD dh get some nerfs?

Demon Hunter
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For everyone too lazy to read through the whole thread , here is a quick summary:

Opener: Omg, DH so imba where are the nerfs in the patchnotes
Random Guy 1 (RG from now on): No, they are ok
RG 2: Yeah maybe a little overtuned, but thats mostly because of Hungering Arrow / Missile Dampening Affix - fix this instead or limit pierces.
RG3: But but, look at all those 150 clears.
RG4: Seasontheme + Dampeners:
RG5: But, ahhm, DH is good in every field an in all Metas! Cant play anything besides DH
RG6: DH is in no Meta , other sets trash. Leave it as it is.
RG3: But WDs and Zaders also were nerfed so nerf DH
RG 5: Yeah, dont repeat that error of nerfing --> see WD and Zader
RG7: Buff other classes instead
RG8: No, no cause of Powercreep–> Nerf DH and other classes to a simmilar lvl
RG9: Buff DH i want DH to be Meta, besides that DH not imba
RG3: Look look Leaderboards, DH clearly imba
RG10: Here are my proposals of the changes on the GoD-Set (that we wont see anyhow)

For gods sake, there will be always a class that is slightly stronger weaker than other classes in one field…sometimes even at more fields. Something as perfect balance doesnt exist. Not in any Videogame and not in Real Life. Man if people would spent so much effort thinking and complaining about why a Mathteacher or a Nurse earns less than somebody working on the development of a new fancy shotgun, this would be a better world. And we can be happy that we still see patchnotes/new items in such an old game.

If there wouldnt be such thing, there would be no motivation to play the game at all.

Imagine if evey class with 5k Paragon is guaruantueed to be able to clear 135 and fail at 137. This is what perf balance would look like.

Then the QoL of the builds would be different and many people would switch to builds that are easy to play…then we see threads in those forums where people complain about that their needs a skill to be more often activated than a skill on the other class and they want to see buffs/nerfs again.

So here is my suggestion: Just put 2 words in the forum on the blacklist “buff” and “nerf”. And the only thing that people can create are Wishlist-Threads with detailed suggestions.

If such a thread then has no summary of said wishlist where everybody works together like in the thread at the barb-forum, the thread gets closed after 20 days past its creation

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We should address the outlier first, which is missile dampening. This elite affix alone, which is almost as strong as a conduit in the right circumstances, brings about 5+ GR’s worth of power by itself and that’s only if you get one of them.

If you just nerf the DA rune and don’t touch missile dampening, then you’ll still see 150 clears. Because HA is uncapped, it doesn’t matter how much you nerf DA, the moment it hits missile dampening, it’s going to hit ridiculous pierce counts and scale. You’ll make the build even more reliant on missile dampening then it already is for those top clears. Instead of keying 1k keys, you’ll key in 2 to 4k keys for multiple missile dampening affixes to make up for the nerf.

This in turn will not only make the build less fun to play and more reliant on gimmick, but you’ll also nerf all other aspects of the build, such as speed GR’s, which right now is in a good spot. It will affect the people that had nothing to do with extreme pushes mainly due to an incredibly OP reaction with a single affix. That’s not fair.

I talked about this a lot on my stream, which eventually lead to Iria creating the “how to nerf DH” thread in GD. GoD6 DA, which is suppose to be a strong single target skill, is pretty bad at it’s job in the current state. Nerfing the rune itself only makes it worse. The uncapped pierces should be addressed instead, then buff the 6pc bonus and other supporting legendaries for bolas. This will, in turn help the other runes of HA, without destroying what the DA rune was designed to do in the first place.

If we have to have a quick “fix” to the build, then simply just remove missile dampening affix next patch. I bet you my life savings that if that affix no longer existed, you’d see signficantly less 150 clears with GoD6, and we wouldn’t see nearly as many “nerf DH” threads.

You misunderstood my reply. My response was to him wanting to bring GoD6 in line with our other builds. If that happens, we would indeed be the worst solo class in the game again. That is a fact.

You’ve been playing this game for a while as well, I’m sure you have to have data somewhere in which blizzard has applied more “sledgehammers” than “scalpels” over the course of D3’s life cycle. It’s never about what “can” be done, as the track record leaves a lot to be desired, but at least they are trying.

You have to look at what the build was because most of the builds that have dominated group meta were also dominant solo push builds as well.

GoD6 is interesting in this case because it is the strongest solo build atm by a large margin, yet is not part of the group meta. This should raise some red flags and questions as to why, given how well it clears solo content. This is the part people tend to gloss over, but it’s an important detail because every other GR 150 or “near 150” solo build clear that has been nerfed has also been dominant in group play. This is not the case with GoD6.

Since it doesn’t mess with group meta, nor does it force an individual to level up a god6 build for xp or gem ups to compete on solo ladder (unlike necros and zbarbs), I think the fact that it performs as well as it does only strictly solo is, while not preferred, “ok” for now until they implement further DH changes.

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I knew it…all the nerf-threads are the fault of some streamer…damn it. Nerf streamers!

My 2 cents on this topic: No cirri changes needed, no rune-change needed. Just remove that damn affix or change it.

The affix clearly reads "missile dampening and not Missile-Enhancing. Therefore it is not working as intended and thats its.

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Perhaps the best idea yet as that really seems to be the issue.

If balancing needs to be done, it should be done on the mean and not the high end. The high end are outliers and just as you would not choose the noobs with no gear, you should not choose the highest…The highest tend to be botting using THUD or other maphacking tool to find and utilize the optimal GRs for time and success.

That would solve a majority of the problem…Aside from HA, other missile attacks also gain multiple strikes causing more damage than designed… have seen this with a monks lashing tail kick where the boss is sitting in the fireball being hit multiple times, as well as affixes from the Shard of hate and sash of knives can also cause multiple strikes in missile dampening.

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I stopped reading the nonsense here!
So either it’s pure provocation or you really don’t know that there is an IMPALE set . but even if you just look at the weapon at the DH … you can SEE it! unless one is blind …

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I’ve refrained from posting in this thread since it was likely created as a troll attempt by a player with a few alternate accounts. That said, I’ll respond to valid points and try to politely correct misinformation.

While I understand what you mean, balancing around the top end is by far the best option. If you don’t balance the top end, then the mid-range players will diverge as they progress higher creating a bigger imbalance.

That is a misinformed guess. True, there are some players who do use cheat programs or bots, but there are a lot of legitimate players too. If you watch certain streams (e.g. Raxxanterax or Wudijo) you can see legit players claiming rank 1. Of course they play 12+ hours a day and spend thousands of GR keys to get those perfect rifts, but they are still legit.

This isn’t the case, only skills classified as projectiles are affected by missile dampening. There are a lot of DH ranged skills that are NOT affected by missile dampening: Multishot, Cluster Arrow, Rain of Vengeance, Evasive Fire, Fan of Knives, and all rocket attacks. Furthermore, with the exception of Elemental Arrow - Ball Lightning, no other DH skill can hit more than once (twice for Multishot with DML). In the case of Ball Lightning, the damage per hit doesn’t increase with the number of hits, has a far lower multiplier, and has no supporting legendaries to buff its damage (Kridershot makes it free, Augustine’s slows it down).

I do agree that removing the Missile Dampening elite affix is a step in the right direction. To compensate for that nerf and buff the mid-range as you wanted, allowing Hungering Arrow to pierce walls would be a welcome balance.

Instead of removing Missile Dampening, capping the number of pierces would do the same but leave the door open for a similar issue if/when Elemental Arrow - Ball Lightning is buffed.

While the streamers may highlight the issue, they are just the messengers! It is very likely that the missile dampening issue was discovered independently by many players.

I’ll link my other thread here so people who haven’t seen it can read it and its 170+ posts! How to nerf DH for real!

I really doubt there are any scientists working at Blizzard. It doesn’t take math higher than algebra, statistics, and possibly trigonometry (for graphics) to make games. Perhaps AI development is where the highest level of math is involved for games (and it’s mostly statistics and linear algebra). I do agree Blackfeather needs the 600% buff to rockets though!

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Come on Iria…, really?

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Well I just wanted to set the record straight! I know you were joking though.

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For all the DHs that you can see in the top 100, they are zDPS using GoD 2 (or 3 with RoRG) with Yang’s Recurve as the weapon with cubed Odyssey’s end. None are impale. I did create a thread last PTR suggesting further buff to holy point shot.

This fact was also noted earlier in this thread.

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There are 2 zDPS Barbs on Hardcore (America server) that cleared 150 GR on season why don’t you ask to nerf them too, clearly they SOLOed a 150 GR so they must be OP… :roll_eyes:

Just because Dev(s) made stupid decissions in the past by nerfing WDs, Crusaders and Wizards doesn’t mean they can’t learn from it and stop repeating them unless they want even more players to leave the game and hate them even more…

This kind of action would only harm them (Blizz) as players might finally OPEN their eyes and just like they show us the middle finger with their braindead nerfs, players will do the same when Diablo 4 comes out and WON’T buy it, cause No One wants his favourite build getting nuked from the orbit in D4 and I bet we will see the same BS they do in D3 RoS in D4 too and you must be really naive if you think they won’t…

Honestly all the previous nerfs are the reason why I’ll never buy D4, cause I’m sick and tired of being told HOW I’m supposed to play the game I PAYED FOR!!

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Then why respond. Why Iria…WHY ? xD

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the topic is about GoD set? so 6-set bonus? more precisely: DAMAGE DH ??? anyone trash talking about zDps DH in top 100 here ?! intellect of a donkey or drunk or fresh from the asylum ?!

yes … these blatant zdps barbarians …
of course they do the same in d4. in overwatch they do it too. only 1 healer of the 7 possible can be played there. all others are mediocre in comparison or even useless at all. and that changes every few months.
i haven’t bought anything from the company for years. it is an absolute waste of money. because the money does not go into the development of the games. at overwatch there is nothing new for a year. just ugly skins that hardly anyone needs.

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Uff, then 99% of the games are not for you, as most of them do have tutorials ^^

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Don’t see you jumping up and down to buff UE MS (a build I prefer the mechanics of vs GoD or even S6) or Nats or M6…even back in the last Era when it was Impale all up and down the boards, many GRs stronger than anything except the super High Paragon folks with LoD RF…

No one (as I’m sure has been mentioned every time you bring this up) is forcing you to do anything. Zero people are forcing you. That’s the same number of people discriminating against you. Hell, your beloved S6 build got a nice little buff last go around right? My beloved UE MS build got squat and is so bad you have to run a hybrid with CC3 to do enough damage and survive. Don’t see where you railed against that power creep.

Again I said you equate the mechanics to button mashing because that’s what happens on CONSOLE…you mash buttons. I don’t get how you can’t understand that? Am I missing something that you don’t push a button on your console controller to activate a skill of some kind like Impale or FoK or Vault or whatever? Don’t event have to worry about Shadow Power after one click unless you die. You said in another thread something like GoD6 is too many buttons…but it’s not. Whatever, maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean by disliking the mechanics and mean more the playstyle?

No. But then again, I don’t care. I play what I enjoy because it’s a game. I don’t get paid to play. I don’t care if I ever make a leaderboard because it doesn’t mean anything. I maybe get to play a few hours off an on during the week. I’ll likely never be 5k paragon NS. But guess what? I don’t care.

I tried playing on console and gave up because I complete sucked at - so no, it’s not PC elitist at all. I’d much rather play on a 65" 4k monitor, but I’m no good so I absolutely respect your ability there.

This game will never (IMO) be completely balanced across classes or within classes. There aren’t enough people working on it and personally I’m happy to keep getting new stuff in a game I started 8 years ago and last plunked down a whopping $15 3 years ago. People should be happy this game is still being worked on.

Lol whut? Isn’t that the point of any game??? I thought the idea of most games like this was to succeed at the highest available content…I mean at some point the loot grind becomes moot if you end up with perfect items in every slot and max augs/gems…what else would there be to do but solo the highest available GR???

Oh, we get it - you hate everything except Impale and don’t want anything to be better than it because you’re so good at it and no one knows cuz leaderboards full of GoD. Leaderboards that win you what exactly? I hate Impale so even though it was stronger and I could “rank” higher, I played UE MS because it’s a GAME and I enjoyed it.

I want UE MS to be as strong. Some folks want Chakram, or heaven forbid Barb IK or Monk Ulianas.

And they don’t care.

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respect and objectivity is too much to ask? if everyone starts trolling, the forum turns into a garbage can.
I’m not even going to suggest that you have to have played 99% of the games to claim something like that. one like that belongs in Guinness World Records.

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I’m on the same boat as you. I love UE Multishot and I hate that I can’t play it in season 21, because it lacks damage, but even though I play the GoD build in season I prefer the UE Multishot much better, yet I’m not crying for nerfs to GoD just because UE Multishot is weak!

I made a post with buffs to the UE set, Yang’s Bow and Dead Man’s Legacy to actually make the build STRONGER.
I even made suggestions on how to make Marauder’s and Nataly’as set with supporting items stronger (the Wall of Text ignored by the nerf “moar powahcreep” squad).
Unlike you (dpastern) not you PMG, I actually want to make OTHER builds STRONGER and don’t cry on forums like a little girl that boo hoo I can’t get on leaderboards with Impale build, cause it’s full of GoD build DHs…
Guess what I play GoD this season yet I didn’t make it to the leaderboards, but I’m not crying for nerfs, cause I can’t get on your beloved leaderboards or even clear a 130 GR with the GoD set…
Anyone who can think wants to have a bigger diversity when clearing the highiest GRs including 150 GR SOLO and the best way to achieve it is to BUFF the weakest ones to the current one that already did 150 GR, that’s NO ROCKET SCIENCE and I bet that even I could do it or at least buff one more DH set and supporting items (if I knew the code and how to do it), to be at least 4-8 or even 5-10 behind the GoD build or even almost as strong as it and I could probably do it IN A DAY instead of MONTHS… :man_facepalming:

There’s no such thing as a PERFECT balanced ARPG game, D2 LoD also had OP builds and guess what DEVS didn’t care, they maybe did 3 or 4 major nerfs and that’s it.
Unlike the current Dev(s) those from D2 LoD, did actually understand their playerbase even though they didn’t give them everything they want, but at least they DIDN’T RUIN every single OP build in the game not to mention that D2 LoD had 1000% more stable servers than currently D3 RoS has and Blizz North was POOR compared to Acti-Blizz…

The whole rant isn’t aimed at you PMG, just to make things clear only at those Nerf and “Mo4r P0w4hcr33p” D1g1t4l K4r3n5…

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that’s true by the way. I also played d2 way too much and had a good ping even with the super slow internet.
I used to play d3 on US servers. super cool people most of the time. only now i have been getting extreme 1k-3k long spikes for 1-2 years …
savings are made everywhere and in the wrong places.

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No that would be something different.

No, just because you put your time and effort into something is should not always be equal to everything else. Why? Because the world doesnt work that way. You can put your heart and soul and everything you have into something and sometimes. It still is not good enough to compete with better. That is just the way it is. No matter how much time and effort you put into a mustang it will still not equal my GTR. See what I mean?

I think the problem comes from a false sense of everything should be equal. The world just doesnt work that way, Not everyone or everything is equal. Anything else would not be worth it.

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So this is a video game, that’s purpose is fun and enjoyment. No laws of physics or economics are violated by making it so multiple builds with different styles to appeal to different people’s preferences are able to be equally effective. I get that some builds will be better suited to speed runs/farming and some pushing, but that doesn’t mean that a variety of push builds for a variety of classes can’t be within ~3GR of each other given equal paragon and equipment.

I’m not sure why you would intentionally design a game where some builds have absolutely no advantage compared to others. Valid trade offs that make the decision more meaningful? Sure. Randomly selecting only certain playstyle builds to be successful regardless of time/effort put in, just because other things in life aren’t always even? Not really sure that makes sense for something that is supposed to be about having fun. In my opinion, having reasonable ROI is fun. Being able to play the way you have the most fun (within reason) and not be penalized for your preferences is fun.

The reality for D3 might be that it’s not worth Blizzard’s investment at this point in an 8 year old game’s life cycle to achieve that balance, but from a game design perspective, I don’t see what it wouldn’t be the goal to have a variety of play styles that can achieve the same goal given equivalent play time.

I’m into cars too, GTRs are cool, what all is done to yours?

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If all of them are with in 3 GR of each other. There is no meaning to what you do or what class you pick. All you are doing is putting yourself in an echo chamber. If all the builds are close to the same. Then what does it matter what you pick? It doesnt. There is no meaning to it. No personality. No chance of someone by way of skill, taking a build and making it a legend due to how its under powered but they made it work.

Oh no it is not worth it. But then games like this are never really balanced, they tried that a long time ago where all classes and builds were equal. It got very boring very fast.

As for the GTR. I just took delivery and cant drive it on the roads here in the US.(EU mod) Just got done with replacing the transbrake. But that is all for another forum.