yes I play it. @140 in 4 man party as BK with impale dh I kill boss in~2minutes, you?
holding dowen impale it is working, but you no not get my point. do you know how crusader Bk need to play? they need to trigger bracers damage, by stun/blind/immo boss, which get immunity to cc if anybody in party has cc control effects and hit boss. it is hard to play it. if imaple as it is now will have same power as crus BK, by just holding a button, then every BK will play Impale, do you know aht I mean?
a new bracer to buff impale on stun/blind/immo is the solution. it that way the playstyle will be harder, tricky to do, but you have the same damage and playstyle as Crusader BK.
why canāt play styles be unique and not like everything else? why does every build need to be a button mash fest? The old k.i.s.s principle comes to mind here.
I donāt group, so nope, not me. I also donāt have a crap load of paragon either. But, I main DH, and impale s6 is my preferred build and I tend to rank pretty damn good on the solo LBs with very low paragon (GR124 @ p1200 in s21 for rank 19 thank you very much). I know the build very well.
The build isnāt broken and doesnāt need changes to the way it works. I donāt even want to see it buffed, I want other builds nerfed to match it (to within 1-2 GR levels). There has been far too much OP buffing in this game in the last 2 years and it is not good.
Trepchains did a video on this. She did a 125 non-season on new PTR with a couple minutes left. On live non-season she was able to do 140. This was with no changes to the follower from live to PTR, so apples to apples. She has now done a 132, I am assuming with a fully decked out follower as she is using Squirtās in the necklace slot. So that is an apple to oranges comparison. So, you think 15 level nerf is not really killing a build? Letās see what you say if they do that to your favorite build.
That was done with a bugged skill. Shatter shotās side arrows ignore the pierce cap placed on god6, therefore still works with missile dampening. This is why everyone switched to shatter shot on PTR. Itās going to get fixed Iām sure.
Not a single person on PTR has cleared above a 128 using GoD6 DA. Itās worse than the LB shows.
True, but it doesnāt mean that I have to like it, and that I cannot criticise Blizzard for it, and that I canāt state that I donāt like their reasoning. You balance around the majority, not the absolute minorityā¦it just shows how out of touch Blizzard is with their player base and the game itself imho.
my fave build (impale s6) was already 15 GRs weaker than god (pre nerf)ā¦a 132 clear is still very respectable imho and nothing to be sneezed at. Iāve done a 124 in NS @ p2700 with 7 minutes to spare with impale s6 - if a 132 is weaker by 15 GR than pre nerf, that would mean trep would have been doing a mid 140 odd clear, say a 145 or so. Thatād actually be 20 odd GRs more powerful than impale s6. How am I meant to compete on the solo LBs when my preferred build is 15-20 GRs weaker? How is that fair? At least now, god is closer to the impale s6 build and I stand a better chance of having equal footing when competing on the LBs as the builds are more closely balanced post god nerfā¦
at what paragon? I play on console, so I donāt have access to PTRs to check whatās going on with clears, etc. Has anyone pushed with impale s6/LON RF/UE MS CCR with similar paragons, and how did those builds compare to god post nerf? If all the builds are the same, then I can accept that as an act of balancing the class. Now Blizzard needs to balance all other character classesā builds to perform similarly to the DH classes.
Somewhat. No oneās bothered to do any MS. Impale has a few clears higher than GoD6 DA, one dude did LoN RF, but at GR 121.
Currently, GoD6 DA, in terms of set balance, is below S6, UE (HA) and M6 (HA).
Itās not. UE6 and M6 HA are several GRās ahead of the other sets because HA is still uncapped on those sets, meaning itās the same type of fishing as before, with Missile dampening. This means youāre still not competing with S6 even within the class, only on S6 boards.
Thereās so little data on DHās on PTR because no one wants to play the class right now. Weāre not balance within the class, weāre not balanced against other classes, and itās not much fun at all.
GoD6 definitely needed to come down, with missile dampening being the main issue, but this 15 GR nerf with no buffs to any other sets or builds in return just completely destroys any fun for DHās.
I seriously hope in the upcoming mid PTR patch that they take another look at GoD6. Unfortunately it was the only competitive build, and while I would like to play UE MS and other stuff, Iād like to feel somewhat strong until blizzard gets around to general buffs for DH.
personally, Iād be happy with a 128, but hey, thatās me and Iām not the ordinary player I guess. I tend to look at the bigger picture, whilst most players on these forums focus on the smaller picture and are rather selfish imho.
Well, as a character class, we need to test all builds thoroughly and seriously push them on the PTR. How many GRs is there between god build (on average) and s6/UE (HA) and M6 (HA)? How does UE MS CCR fair in the mix?
That would suggest that HA needs to be slightly nerfed and god set bonuses slightly buffed. Nerfing HA will balance the UE and M6 HA builds and buffing god with the right amount of bonuses should see it work out around the same as the 2 aforementioned builds. At least, if Iāve thought things through correctly and logically.
NO disagreement from me here. I keep harping on about build balancing for ALL DH sets/buildsā¦have been for a few years now. I just want it so that you can pick whatever DH build you want, and get pretty much equal performance from all of them in regards to GR pushing. Itās not hard to do, but Blizzard doesnāt seem keen on doing it for whatever ulterior motives.
That sounds reasonable, but for me, since I prefer s6 impale, it would mean that itād be another 1 or 2 or even more seasons of my preferred build being seriously weaker than god and having no chance of competing at the top end of the LBs like I used toā¦I just want a fair chance of being able to compete. Iām not asking for s6 impale to be 15 GRs stronger than any other build, I want them all pretty much equal.
Iāve copped my fair share of hate cos Iāve voiced that the god nerf needed to happen, and it did. If weāre being holistically honest, you know I am right in my assessment. I get that people were happy with god being so powerful and having a DH build as powerful as the other top character class builds etc. This is why I canāt understand why Blizzard would nerf god but leave other OP builds from other character classes unchanged. The balancing process is not that difficult or challenging that it needs to be done @ 2 builds per patch, taking like the next 15 patches to achieve balance across the game - thatād be just utterly ridiculous.
If Blizzard doesnāt want to do the math, let the more technically minded folks/players do the math for them. I am sure that the community could balance all of the builds across the game.
That 128 clear had over 6k paragon. The next lowest is a 125 at 13k paragon, followed by another 125 at 4.9k paragon. Youād be lucky to clear a 122 at 3k paragon. Thatās actually below the threshold blizz stated years ago they wanted sets to be at.
You speak about looking at the bigger picture, but many people that have tried on PTR have all stated how horrible it feels to play this set in any sort of density. Itās not even about just the power, it just feels awful. Thatās not being selfish, thatās sharing an honest viewpoint about a set thatās underperforming on PTR even by blizzards standards.
Some of these builds donāt need additional testing, because they didnāt get changed for over a year now, such as UE MS, N6/M4 CA, rapid fire, etc. We know where they stand because we tested them thoroughly when they actually mattered.
Currently at the top, UE6 and M6 are about 7+ GRās ahead of other builds.
Iād say the opposite. Other builds should come up to where UE6 and M6 HA are if you want people to actually consider playing the class. Even then weāll still be behind other classes because itās still an overall net nerf.
Power creep is a real problem in this game, but the idea of gutting an entire class while the other classes breeze through 140ās under 2k para like itās nothing isnāt anyoneās idea of fun. No one wants to play DH right now.
Thatās the dream. More people want this than you think, but most people know this reality is not going to happenā¦anytime soon.
Donāt get me wrong, most of us donāt like having just 1 or 2 strong builds to play (in our case, it was just 1), but itās better than the entire class feeling gimped to play. Itās ok for people to have nice things.
ok but we can not define a build of how YOU like to play it. this is not your personal build, it belongs to all players.
Impale S6 is meant to be DH BK build, at least this is how most af dh players see it and also devs I think. in this case this build shall match the potential of other BK builds in the game, e.g. Crusader BK. they can not nerf all other builds in the game because you want so. instead they can buff Impale S6 to match e.g. best BK build in gamr, crusader BK.
so, again, but read carefully this time: crusader BK is not so esdy to play as Impale S6, so they csn just buff Impale damage because then nobody eill play crussder anymore and all will switch to dh BK. instead thry can improve damage of the build via a bracer that match the play style of crusader: Impale to do 300% increased damage to stun/immo/blind enemies. will not bd very hard to plsy it stay chill, you just need to apply either stun/blind/immo e.g. on cold rotation of COE before shot Impale.
I dont see it as a RGK at allā¦ I see it as an engaging set that moves from elite to elite with fast kills and ignore most white mobs unless they count for progression.
Itās mobile, and it is a very nice change from the other DH buildsā¦
Demon Hunters donāt blind or immobolize. If youāre going to insist on crowd control based damage, at least pick crowd control affects that are found on our skills and gear.
because you play it solo only. I piayed it solo also when this one was only good build for dh, was in dh leaderboards with it. now you can not push leaderboards with it as there are several dh builds much better. also in group play it is seen as RGK only, and some low life elites reamined after trash killer did his job, otherwise at 130+ in 4 party you can not do any progress with it.
ok regarding comment that dh do not blind/immo toomuch with skills, but there are items to blind e.g. Cord of Sherma belt(if I remember well the name)ā¦ ā¦ or of course cc effects needed by the bracer can be adapted to dh.
Sure, and most players, if not all, play it like I do - elite hopping. Console is a tiny bit different, since we need to kill trash to generate NG globes to maintain maximum damage output.
What is this āBKā that you are referring to? Iāve never heard that acronym with regards to D3 in all my years on the forums. Iāve never heard s6 impale referred to as āBKā either (obviously).
Why do we need to stun/blind etc? The build works perfectly fine as is. If it aināt broken, donāt fix it. The real issue here is not the play style or mechanics, but the damage that the build does is much weaker than competing builds from other character classes.
well a RGK is basically a large HP elite, soā¦also, your description is accurate for the PC/Mac version of the game, but very inaccurate for the console ports.
exactly, thatās why the build needs a buff.
On the odd occasion when I have grouped up, I have played s6 impale as both elite killer and RGK. There are sadly, better options out there.
and no one uses those skillsā¦so kind of irrelevant to the conversation.
The question is not changing the s6 impale buildās methods of killing mobs/elites etc, but buffing itās damage output to match other top builds.
Of course, given that there are only a handful of very powerful top builds, and a tonne of much weaker builds, it is more logical, and easier, to nerf the OP builds back down to ordinary levels. That would be a far more efficient use of development resources at Blizzard, and would also remove some of the power creep that has permeated the game for the past few years.
Crusader RGK still clears trash a lot easier and better than Impale RGKā¦This makes a huge difference on RGās that spawn adds. Impale moreso has trouble because them adds can stack on top of RG which prevents Karleis to proc on RG.
People always try to describe Impale as an āelite killerā, butā¦seriouslyā¦If youāre pushing, youāre not always and only running from elite to elite. You still need to clear a lot of trash in order to earn progression. Impale still builds AreaDmg if given the opportunity to do so as well. Granted, itās been 2-3 season since Iāve played Impaleā¦But if you open a GRift with a nice map and no elites are there, but have high densityā¦Are you or should you skip all that density? Atleast try to drag it along the map if you canā¦Progression is progression. And no matter what build or build classification you are, trash will always be easier progression especially with high density.
Also, if youāre only running around looking for elites. Youāre very well identifying shadowed areas of the map that could potentially be spawning pylons (earlier). You need a good balance of progression vs map identification for pylon spawns. Doing otherwise is typically unproductive.
Yes, wholly agreed. Perhaps RGs should be re-worked to eliminate add-onsā¦as a QOL fix. The only issue with this is again with consoles - if we die, we lose NG, and if itās vs the RG, and no add-ons, it means no more NG and weāre at half damage (vs PC).
This is true, I agree, although with the PC version of the game, itās less of a necessary than with the console ports due to the unique NG mechanism that we have.
ouch!
Thatās a few GRs weaker than impale s6 atm imho. Iāve done a 124 with 7 mins to spare, probably could do a 126, maybe a 127 with a lot of fishing I suspect (p2700; lgems around rank 120; augments around rank 110).
How much buff would reducing the nerf from 2 to 3 missile penetrations add to the god build?
the mechanics havenāt really changed per se though, have they? The issue is the number of missile penetrations have dropped and overall power has reduced, so it takes longer to drill through trash/mobs etc now. Welcome to the land of every other DH build!
The problem is āout of sight, out of mindā - if Blizzard doesnāt see them being pushed, it forgets about themā¦we need to be in Blizzardās face for ALL DH builds imho.
how did UE get ahead of impale? The last I looked s6 impale + aughilds and UE MS with CCR were pretty evenly balanced. Or is this the UE HA variant? I havenāt played the latter, so no idea on how powerful it is.
Agreed, this is why I have criticised Blizzard for not nerfing all other OP character class builds to match a similar GR push level as god etcā¦i.e. balance!
And this is why we have to be very vocal with Blizzard and if need be, leave the game in droves until Blizzard gets the drift. Weāre so hung up on being nice and polite to Blizzard that they donāt give a crap. A company will only take notice of customers when its bottom margins drop. Until then, with the basic laws of consumerism and capitalism in play, theyāll continue to screw us over. People see this as myself being negative, or cynical etc, but if you really, really think about this, you will see that I am 100% right.
I agree, but again, see my paragraph above.
PS sorry for not replying earlier this morning with my earlier reply - I somehow missed your post in the breakfast rush and getting ready for work.
BK = Boss Kill, RGK. in 3/4 man party at 130+ this build is BK. you are there as DH to kill boss at the end and maybe some elites which remain with low life after trash killer do his job.
I think is the 3-4rth time when I repeat. you can not do this build to have same damage as Crusader BK, becuase it will be a build very simple to play so no one will play Crusader BK anymore. do you understand that your build can not be buffed by destroyng all other correspondent builds in the game? thatās why this build should be buffed to match both damage and playstyle of other correspondent builds.
yes, exactly this is the point. there are better options out there then S6 impale for group. thatās why this build need to be buffed, BUT NOT JUST increasing damage becuase it is too easy to play compared with the other better out there. I know that you want that your build to be the strongest and you just need to hold down a button and kill everything so you will be the hero
LOL, it will be used if the buff go in that direction. For one button play game I recomend you Super Mario Bross (there are 2 buttons but you can play it with jump only if insist soo much).
