Seriously, you don't need to take the risk

[TanisGunthar-1764]

I think you are going a bit too far. Game isn’t going to flop. There were some worries with the first Blizzard survey, and even the second one was kind of a “WTF?” in terms of how well presales are doing. It will sell well, on PC. Console is another story though…Unless they smooth out inventory management, I don’t see this doing well on console. Player engagement however, I feel will fall pretty drastically like with Diablo 3 (despite the game still having it’s own fanbase) if issues such as balance, the content gate of ladder vs non ladder, etc are not addressed.

Now I will say that I still have a feeling that many of the purists, despite how true it is to current D2 patch, will find something about it to complain about and just simply go back to original game.

[Drium-1319]

I didn’t say it would definitely flop, just that they can’t afford for it to flop.

So why takes chances?

[Axe-12152]

@MicroRNA-1507

Then you haven’t be comprehending what I have written and repeated since February.

Ive seen that, but Ive seen the game toggle suggestion far more, even earlier in this thread. Forgive me if I mistook your preference. The point is game toggles and separate communities are really not equivalent in terms of guaranteeing the mostly original, authentic D2 experience. If we could just agree separate communities are the best answer here, that’d be nice.

And Micro, please, the autogold toggle is obviously not comparable to a loot filter toggle…

Anyway, this thread is really meant to look at how toggles are a little bit of a trickier subject than theyre normally presented on the forum. Drium gave me some hope in the beginning saying of course the significant ones would only work well in a separate community - this makes sense to me (for the reasons in the original post).

[TanisGunthar-1764]

I see no problem with having a separate character mode for an updated version of Diablo 2.

[Drium-1319]

TBH MicroRNA thankfully does not represent most of us who are asking for changes, as they keep swinging around terminology that contradicts what most of us are asking for.

For example, Micro likes to talk about “personal loot” as if it were a system of automatic loot distribution, which is not how 99% of those of us talking about personal loot actually mean it.

Micro also keeps pushing for toggles at game creation instead of character creation, without any acknowledgement that this would create severe balance issues and make the toggles mandatory for efficient and correct play.

Micro also keeps pushing charm inventories as if it were an agreed upon statement that those of us asking for charm inventories are actually asking for half-inventories, effectively a nerf in charm-carrying capacity.

The list goes on.

They are likely responsible for a lot of the animosity against the crowd that desires changes, especially the extremely pedantic nitpicking of posts.

And I say that as someone who greatly desires changes.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Drium-1319

Micro also keeps pushing for toggles at game creation instead of character creation, without any acknowledgement that this would create severe balance issues and make the toggles mandatory for efficient and correct play.

Your perception is not correct, relative to my actual position.

For clarity, I think there are QoL changes that can be handled by toggles but my opinion is that it would be best to have separate game modes: status quo and modern. In this thread, I even provided a quote earlier in this thread from February 28 to show the longterm consistency in my desire for either separation at game or character creation.

Here are a few examples:
Feb. 28

@MicroRNA-1507

There is no reason not to introduce a separate mode where there is personal loot (either selected at game creation or character creation based on what Blizzard decides). The original global loot mode remains. Old school D2 players get the game they want. Other players can choose to have a different experience.

March 15

@MicroRNA-1507

If they keep FFA only loot and introduce an option for personal loot, the game is both preserved with FFA-only and has a selectable option for non-FFA that can be segregated at game or character creation.

April 21

@MicroRNA-1507

Also, I am not advocating for the removal of FFA loot. I am advocating for a second option either at game or character creation. If it is at character creation, it would be an option just like choosing ladded/non-ladder or hardcore/softcore.

May 3

@MicroRNA-1507

The first survey asked if players were interested at D2R launch in balance changes to items/skills and personal loot instead of FFA loot. Personally, I do not want FFA loot removed. I want the option to select at game creation or character creation personal or FFA loot.

@Drium-1319

Micro also keeps pushing charm inventories as if it were an agreed upon statement that those of us asking for charm inventories are actually asking for half-inventories, effectively a nerf in charm-carrying capacity.

Your perception is incorrect, relative to my position.

If you look at when I have discussed charm inventories, it is almost universally in response to another poster claiming that charm inventories make the game easier. I have been clear that in terms of easy/hard, it depends on how the charm inventory is implemented. I use as an example a half-charm inventory to illustrate that this would in fact make the game harder not easier.

Again, I can provide multiple quotes to demonstrate this but for brevity’s sake I will give just one example.

@MicroRNA-1507

@Spekkio-1591

How can a charm inventory be an option? Optional cheats to make the game easier for people?

It depends on how a charm inventory is implemented. Many people fill their inventory to the brim with charms, increasing their character’s power. If the charm inventory was only half the size of the current inventory and charms only “worked” in that inventory, the game would actually be harder not easier.

@Drium-1319

Micro likes to talk about “personal loot” as if it were a system of automatic loot distribution, which is not how 99% of those of us talking about personal loot actually mean it.

I have no idea what this even means. Personal loot is not automatic loot distribution and I have never said anything along those lines.

Please search loot automatic and my username. You will see that I never said that personal loot was “automatic” loot distribution.

If you want to see the common loot nomenclature, I made this thread as a simple primer.

Simplified Primer on Loot Nomenclature - Diablo II: Resurrected / General Discussion - Diablo 3 Forums (blizzard.com)

[Drium-1319]

Oh boy here we go. Nope, not engaging.

[Geezer-11142]

As an outside observer to this thread right now can one of you tell me how personal loot is not automatic loot distribution?

It would be an automated system of rolls to allocate a specific player the loot (or zero loot)

Is there a semantic angle I’m missing here?

[Funnynick-1421]

@Drium-1319

Oh boy here we go. Nope, not engaging.

This is entertaining tbh, I am watching the post get edited in real time.

[Axe-12152]

@SwiftKitten-1452

over 142 replys and only 4 upvotes…

something tells me its not much of a “risk”…

You know this thread is almost 25% reply:view count? There’s waay more back and forth going on in here than normal.

[MDK22-1519]

@TanisGunthar-1764

Besides, original D2 seen updates for years, even if smaller in scale until they essentially dropped it.

D2 LoD Release date(s):June 27, 2001: EU
Patch 1.14d was released on the 7th of June, 2016.

Approx 5 yrs of support. All of there modern titles have seen much longer support this is true but, how many titles did they have release at the same time from the same franchise before.

D2R is also going to be around to be able to put OG D2 to rest permanently. Old bnet they cant tell you why you have been punished. They can’t tell you much of anything so they can’t admin it well. New hardware does not want to run the old software right. Old hardware breaks down and stops working. So they build a new back end and new gui call it D2R you can still play OG graphics so now they can kill the old bnet and have everything able to be controlled by one system with a lot more control.

[TanisGunthar-1764]

I think you meant 15, last major update was 2010 with 1.13. I do think that they might merge US servers after D2R for OG D2 like they did with Asia, but I doubt they have any short term plans of axing them.

[MDK22-1519]

Math is hard and I am le tired. But for the most part you and I seem to agree on this subject.

I highly doubt they will keep OG around there is too many issues with the way it is to keep maintaining it. They might move everything to one global server but, I don’t see it lasting more then a year or 2.

[Zax-11538]

@Axe-12152

This is totally “superfluous” logic, imo. Can you appreciate how frankly silly, at base, a statement that is? It’s the safest course for Blizz and for any remaster. D2R is essentially a D2 remaster, so if it’s kept mostly like D2, no one will have any real justification for being upset. That’s perfectly in line with the expectations for a remaster, after all.

If game was only graphic remaster, people will try it and will leave after as it is still same game and there is reason that original game keeps dying over time. If they want to keep more players playing longer than one season, they need to make a lot of QoL changes with promise of new content and balance in future.

[SoulsKeeper-1639]

@Anselm-1130

What is it that the people demanding changes keep telling everyone else? “The original game is still there for you to play.”

Yeah well, the original mods are still there for you to play.

the argument of telling someone the original is still there is for someone that doesn’t want any changes, if you don’t want ANY changes the original is still there

nice try on twisting it though

[SoulsKeeper-1639]

A lot of people were angry before they confirmed shared stash as well

people are just afraid that’s all, but the studio is doing a good job, I bet most people that don’t agree to any quality of life changes probably didn’t even give it a trail, test it first, show your opinion and then say yes or no

@TheGreyDeath-2736

Because those changes would be outside the normal expectations for a remaster

No it’s not, remasters can add a lot of additional content mate, this community been hurt a few times and they feel fragile that’s all

[Zax-11538]

@SoulsKeeper-1639

people are just afraid that’s all, but the studio is doing a good job

This, i can definitely agree with that. I think 99,99% players will love the QOL changes, but they are mostly afraid that changes could somehow affect play negatively. Well i am not suprised after fail with warcraft reforge and even diablo 3.

[Axe-12152]

@Zax-11538

If game was only graphic remaster, people will try it and will leave after as it is still same game and there is reason that original game keeps dying over time.

I don’t know – I think the graphics and old network are huge reasons people aren’t playing it now. They’re why I’m not playing it now - I don’t want to play D2 with those graphics. I enjoyed it for a while, but no longer. But I’ll play D2R and enjoy it for a long time with these great graphics.

I’m sure there are tons of people like me out there. Just fans who love D2 but don’t want to suffer through seriously outdated visual issues and a fonky network.

Since D2R is essentially honoring D2, I really hope the option to play in a community of D2R-as-it-was-announced-at-Blizzcon will always be available. I’m really repeating myself a lot in here now, but the way to accomplish that is an entirely separate community where loot filters, charm invs, and p-loot just aren’t possible. Then another separate community with survey-driven changes would be totally fine and cool.

The problem I see is I don’t think Blizzard will want to figure out the complexity of all these separate communities. But just adding loot filters and charm invs and telling us to not use them if we don’t want to also adds a ridiculous amount of complexity. So it seems that any decision Blizzard would make here would be pretty convoluted. Hence this topic. I really don’t think any of that is necessary, because a pure D2R couldn’t really deserve much scorn. I’d rather separate communities are made so everyone can play what they want, but it just seems like a lot of extra work. But I’ll root for em.

And thanks to the moderator who edited my first post - thanks for the edit and not a suspension or something =P

[SoulsKeeper-1639]

I keep responding to you about the same matter but I get no response back

at first i was against all these other changes as well, all I wanted is the new graphics and better connection and support from blizzard for the game bugs(I was even reluctant for the artistic changes from the graphics stand point), but I saw how it turned out and I also got to test all these features in mode after

don’t rule them out before all of you actually test each and every of these changes thoroughly

[Zax-11538]

@Axe-12152

I don’t know – I think the graphics and old network are huge reasons people aren’t playing it now.

Graphic isnt the reason, new nice graphic is useless if you dont like to play the game for a long time.

People playing and stopping after few weeks will be failure.

@Axe-12152

I don’t want to play D2 with those graphics. I enjoyed it for a while, but no longer.

I find this very strange. Are you really sure if is just a graphic? Because you will usualy get use to bad graphic when game is excelent. Unless its super ugly of course but thats not case of diablo which is pixelated but has nice look.

I want people to stay 2+ years and just new graphic will not be enough to accomplish it.

@Axe-12152

Just fans who love D2 but don’t want to suffer through seriously outdated visual issues and a fonky network.

I dont think fans stopped playing D2 because how it looked. I think they eventualy stopped playing because they just moved on and had enough of diablo 2. You think they would keep playing same game again for long time just becouse of good looks? I dont think so.

@Axe-12152

Then another separate community with survey-driven changes would be totally fine and cool.

No, this cant happen, we need one strong player base without separating it. We already will be separated to SP, ladder, non ladder, SC and HC which is more than enough.

@Axe-12152

But just adding loot filters and charm invs and telling us to not use them if we don’t want to also adds a ridiculous amount of complexity.

Why do you think maphack was/is so popular? People want to see map just like in single player, they want to filter loot.

I have played on many D2 private D2 servers filled with players who were fed up with battle net and broken economy and bots. But you know what? Maphack with loot filter was allowed on most of them because people wanted it as its excelent QoL improvement.

From what i remember a lot of players on battle net back in the days i played used maphack there for loot filter, to see map and to have protection from tppk cheaters.

I dont need charm inventory. I want bigger horadric cube.

I dont need rune and gem stacking, i want rune and gem bags.

I definitely want loot filter to eliminate certain item types to be visible because vanila doesnt allow to see all items on ground where there is too much loot.