So then you are saying that this stack swapping that has nothing to do with what the hotfix changed was there from day one of the patch on live servers. Because if it was then that means it would’ve been there in the second iteration of the PTR patch but somehow no one noticed it. Which means someone that told me the stack swapping that everyone and you are talking about is post hotfix. So is it post or pre hotfix?
This is the same team that thought that Realm of Trials was a good idea. They actually kept trying to make it work when it was clear that it was a bad idea from the get go. Blizz has done many things with D3 that has left many of us scratching our heads. So this one is no surprise to me.
With an accurate definition of exploit that is clearly accepted by the majority of players then I can determine what is and what isn’t an exploit. If that definition is whatever we please it to be then that means that exploits can be anything we deem them to be. More so when the devs are not even considered at all in the equation.
That is like saying in baseball. If you had your foot on the bag before the player touched you with the ball you are out if the manager of the opposing team says you are out. All because the manager of the opposing team says you are out you are out and the umpire has to rule according. What the established rules of baseball says doesn’t mean anything at all.
This time it is not as obvious as you would think.
Then the one that earlier told me that the stack swapping issue is post hotfix is wrong. A person that said he was testing the PTR The entire time and never noticed it. If it was there pre hotfix then it could very well be what they have intended the whole time and forgot to put it in the patch notes. Beside they no doubt like watching how we get creative with the new season theme. Season 19 seen players clearing GR150 by carefully timing the buffs to where the angels would help them destroy the RG.
I guess then Realm of Trials, when it existed, was purposefully designed to waste time and be something that removed a lot of fun from the game huh. After all it is impossible for them to have originally intended it to be a good feature.
Or better yet, I guess according to you and others like you I have to accept without question when you say that Blizz is lying. Which might be all of the time. I am pretty sure that those that know me well know how I would fell about that.
Maybe you are trying so say that you can read minds.
First, a fact does not require a “majority” to agree, that it’s a fact. A fact exists on it’s own.
Second, your definition wasn’t what “majority of players agree on”.
Your definition is “whatever the devs say”.
Because the devs can just lie to you and say “yes, it was our intention” when it’s obvious, that they don’t wanna dedicate more resources on the seasonal theme.
Again, I’ve played games for 20 years, I can see how things are designed to be played for the most part.
And again, Meteor blade is completely right when he said, that no one believes the way the thing plays out is the way it was designed to be played.
That’s the first interesting point you’ve brought up.
No, I do not believe, that intent of the devs with Trials (that disgusting feature, that is now giving me flashbacks, tnx for that BTW) was to just piss people off.
I believe it was a feature, that the devs made based on suggestion from the players. Just like Rifts and Greater Rifts were designed based on the “Infinite dungeon” suggestion, the same way Trials were designed based on the “fight off waves of mobs” suggestion.
Only with the Trials, Blizzard put too much of a twist and the result was a terrible feature.
However, if you recall, the devs were very resistant to players asking for that nonsense to be removed. The devs begrudgingly removed Trials after, and only after top players on the leader boards started to write topics and delete their characters as a sign of protest.
Again, they clearly didn’t wanna dedicate resources on fixing it and tried to wait and see if players will learn to love that nonsense… and it took drastic measures from the players to get the devs to remove it.
And I have to wonder, if the devs back then said “yes, it is working as intended” would you have believed them? Because, you know… a dev is always honest with his intent…
Just to add to that argument, as someone who’s been working on the software industry for the last 5 years, 100% of programmers lie. For a variety of reasons, being time, some higher priority things needed to be solved first, bad management of the project leading to too much work to do on a short deadline, whatever. Lots of reasons. And “it’s working as intended” is the most written sentence in patch notes ever when they don’t want to address a certain issue that already became public knowledge.
It is an obvious exploit that the devs have deemed a necessary evil for undisclosed reasons. The difference between this exploit and others is that Blizzard have straight up confirmed there will be no punishment for abusig it. In likelihood what happened is that they weighed the pros and cons against the dev time available and decided that it is not worth to fix it. It’s really not more complicated than that and you don’t have to drop paragraphs of childish examples and technicalities just to defend your very narrow assessment of what is considered an exploit.
I just watched a very nice informative video about The Witcher franchise, and how it’s plagiarism. You should totally check it out:
xxhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkiP64adGjY&feature=emb_title
I’d say the information is more than a compelling proof.
I’m sure though, that a certain poster would say “Naah, you can’t prove intent”
I guess then you can make up your own personal definition of every word in the English language that is so different from the known definitions and everyone would understand what you are saying right. Mind really telling me how important it is for the majority of people to agree on a definition.
Again I say it isn’t so obvious because of the fact that the devs have over the years done things that caused us to scratch our heads. Things that did work as intended as far as they worked as they were designed to work. This is why I mentioned Realm of Trials in the first place.
Game devs have actually two different intentions. One is to design features to work in the manner that they intended. Or to say they work just like they are designed to work. Meaning that Realm of Trials did what they designed it to do. Players would face wave after wave till they couldn’t go any further. The end result of a GR key tuned to the level of GR that was equivalent to the last wave cleared.
The second line of intent wasn’t hit properly and that was to design the feature as a feature that everyone would love. It proved to be a bad idea that couldn’t be fixed so that is why they canned it after years of trying to fix it.
I say that a similar thing is happening here. The devs didn’t tell us that they intended on stack swapping from the start. They wanted to see if the players would find out about it. Obviously they did or we wouldn’t be having such a discussion.
Also as far as intentions goes I would say that it hit the first box as far as the season theme working as they intended it to work. Meaning it works in the way it was designed to work. Not it hasn’t hit the second most important intention which is a season theme that players love.
With the all of the evidence that I have seen that is the way that I see it. Otherwise I am left with no other choice but the rule that the whole game outside if soloing and white items is an exploit, well at least here on the forums.
It was working as intended as far as doing what it was designed to do. The only other intention box that was never hit was a feature that would be fun for a lot of players.
Take the heavy rng in this game. D2 doesn’t have nearly as much rng as this game does. Does it do what it was designed to do, yes so that part is working as intended. But is it hitting the second intention box of being loved by a lot of players. I would say no.
A very interesting statement here. First of all to know if all programmers will lie you would have to know all programmers throughout the entire planet. I know for a fact that there are millions upon millions of people that wouldn’t lie for their boss, even if it means they would lose their job over it. Because it is against their religious convictions and their moral code. Out of those millions there are no doubt some of them working in programming.
Plus there is another interesting tidbit. If 100% of programmers lie and you are one of them. That puts what you are saying here into question. Because it is branding you as a liar. Not a wise move to do, that is unless you are gonna next claim you are the only honest one in the whole bunch.
And I can keep calling, on the forums only, all other things other than solo play and white items as an exploit. After all anything where you play smart using the game’s mechanics to benefit yourself is an exploit.
With all of the books that have ever been written in the annuals of history it could be proven that there are a lot of similarities to a lot of books that are published recently and ones that were published decades ago. That alone isn’t proof of plagiarism. If it were then no new books, plays, movies, TV movies, TV shows, etc… could ever be created.
What happens is that the majority of what is out there inspires others to make things that are in the same genre but different enough to not to be considered a violation of copyright law.
Besides I didn’t you you can never prove intent. I said that it is hard to do because it is mental. Unless you are a mind reader and can read minds proving intent would be hard to do. Even in this discussion that the thread is based on.
I would imagine we could both agree on a definition of what a chrysanthemum is.
Now imagine if I pointed to a cowpat and said “Oh, look, a chrysanthemum.” and you replied “No, that’s a cowpat.”
Would we be disagreeing on the definition of the word chrysanthemum, or would you be pointing out that I was mislabelling a cowpat as a chrysanthemum?
This thread is the same thing. We’re not arguing about the definition of the word exploit, we’re pointing out that Blizzard saying that the current use of the theme as not being one is mislabelling, not a mis-definition.
Everybody lies, to say ones holier than thou and does not lie, is lying. My kids and wife would be for ever scared if I told them the truth all the time, never lying.
“Daddy, look what I drew, do you like it!”
“No. Looks like something I crapped out last night splattered on the paper”
“Hey babe, how do I look?”
“You look like you do every single day…and your not getting any younger”
Funny on paper as a comic, but wouldn’t bode to well in real life. Anyone can can assume, speculate, or believe anything they want to and in a lot of cases, humans have the functionality to realize when something is wrong even without mind reading.
My cars antifreeze would be gone by the time I drove to work. I took it in as I only had it for a week and had the professional mechanic take a look. He said everything’s working like it should. Figuring it may have been low and I didn’t check it before I purchased it (was used), I took off the next day to work after them filling it back up and presto, it was empty again.
Now that professional mechanics who should know more than me told me everything was working as intended…so if I were to believe him, my car didn’t need coolant.
I am not making up my own personal definition, you are!
A fact does not require “majority of people to agree”, facts exist on their own and it’s up to people to discover them.
There was a time, that most people did not agree, that the Earth was round. That did not magically turn the Earth into a flat plane, the fact did not conform to what people thought of it.
This way of thinking of yours is stupid beyond belief. You can try and pull all manner of mental gymnastics. I am no longer going to waste my time discussing this topic, because it’s as pointless as discussing the shape of the Earth.
If you can’t wrap your head around what you’re told, if you can’t tell when someone is lying to you, the problem is yours.
To those, who understood what I’m saying – good for them, they probably knew it before I said it anyways.
To you – keep on with the ridiculous rationalizations.
It’s one thing to have some similarities. It’s another thing to blatantly copy paste a character. If you can’t see the difference, the problem is yours again.
False. That’s only your… quite frankly autistic interpretation.
And yet in the real world, intent can actually be proven on a sufficient lvl for a reasonable person (or judge, or a jury since you used law examples above) to agree and convict someone.
The leaderboards aren’t that important or is it?
Personally when my character reach the point where everything outside GR #XXX dies on a single mouse click I don’t have much fun.
Starting with the fact that 99.99% of the players don’t even bother to build a character for themselves (that include me when I want to play in team), the seasonal buff doesn’t look like the issue here.
To get on the leaderboards there’s only few things to do:
copy/paste the build that a fan who studied every aspect of the game made
learn to play with that build
be lucky
Season 21 just added a 4th step which is seasonal buff
You know that Blizzard considered d3 a failure , thats why we did not get a x-pac.
Looking back they should of opened d3 up to modders when they canceled it,but everything’s a big secret with Blizzard.
Most other developers let you open the hood and look at the engine. Modders could of made d3 great. Blizzard lost interest a long time ago, I mean you would not want a exploit created by modder when they can do it them self lol. You would not be having this post im pretty sure of that The games been stale for about 10+ seasons now ,powercreeps and lack of end play I cant even do a rift before I shut it down. Good luck i might see you all in d4, maybe.
Nonsense. You don’t tell the players something works a certain way, hide the way it really does work, and then let the players figure it out. That’s stupid.
You can tell this is unintended just by what you need to do in order to swap stacks. The players in a group have to intentionally separate themselves at specific intervals and in a certain way. It’s dumb to even entertain the idea that they designed a mechanic that’s so contrary to the way groups are supposed to function.
The other way you can tell that its unintended is that when you do it long enough random effects start firing off that have nothing to do with your timer or your stacks. Which means that your so-called “intended” way of doing things is causing glitching.
Again, if that’s true, why does it start glitching out after the stacks reach a certain point? Further, the original design didn’t even include a timer, and you have to have the timer in order to know when to separate.
In other words, you can’t say it’s working the way it was designed to work if we needed an additional mechanic to use it. The timer would have been there in the first place because they would have known it was impossible to use without it.
That’s you deciding to act dumb, not something that’s really true.
Look you know where I was going with definitions. I was looking for a dictionary type definition of the word exploit and I found it. Two different sources saying the same thing.
Players don’t get to change definitions to suit their whim or how they feel it is that simple. According to you though I shouldn’t even accept those dictionary definitions as being true. Which means that I along with everyone else doesn’t know anything at all.
Did you look at the above paragraph. Now you are seriously getting me to doubt that you actually read the above paragraph.
There are some companies where the boss comes to some of his workers and tells them you need to sign your name to document x which is fraudulent and will be telling those that see it lies. Putting your name to it is just as much as saying you are telling the same lie your boss is. Then they tell you that if you don’t sign off on it you will be fired. That is the situation that I am talking about here.
That depends on what the child drew. There are all sorts of things that are hanging in museums that would, to me, look like a chicken danced on it. But the artist had something else in mind.
I have seen some children that drew an anniversary card for their parents wedding anniversary. Even though it was just stick figures of them getting married with I Do on top of the card. The parents kept those cards and even showed them off. Because they went beyond the mere aesthetic value. They know that their children drew that from the heart and that meant more to them than any store bought card.
If you don’t have anything good to say then say nothing at all.
My spiritual sisters in my religion are not that hung up on their looks. They are only concerned about having modest and well arranged dress and grooming. If they look presentable and they are not indecent then they have nothing to worry about.
Anyone else you can say if you don’t have anything good to say say nothing. Saying nothing means that you won’t lie.
The majority of lies that they would tell would be if they were lied to by others, and that is if they do lie due to not being able to perfectly bridle their tongue.
I was actually talking about lying for your boss instead of any other lie. Let’s stick to lying for your boss. I am sure that there have been millions of people throughout history that wouldn’t lie for their boss. Due to their high moral standards.
Oh and it is impossible that these devs couldn’t have pulled another head scratcher. This is the same Activision/Blizz that gave us D3 which at launch was a mess. It took many patches and one expansion to get it where it is now, which is a good game, not great game.
I am sure that if you done a little inspection you would find out what is going wrong. Those things are easy to notice, more so if you regularly check your car like my father did.
Oh wait, what do I know there have only been around 100 fiction books in the entire history of man’s existence right. Now you see where I am going.
There have no doubt been millions upon millions of fiction books in man’s history. With all of the character’s that have existed the chances of two being identical is gonna increase, even if the only difference is a name change.
The idea of a season theme couldn’t have possibly been to shake up the meta where even the way that groups interact with each other changes. The same Blizz that gave us all of those other head scratchers couldn’t have possibly given another one huh.
But since they are not the ones with the final say then all other things other than white items and playing solo is an exploit. Wonder what season of exploit season 22 will be. After all it won’t stick with what I said so it will be just another exploit right.
Again in law it is difficult to proven intent. All the defense has to do is to cause doubt. Just a little doubt is all that is needed and the defendant is acquitted.
Oh and drop the protect that they have for their IP and game integrity. I don’t think you will see that happen at all. I would say that it might happen when D3’s servers would shut down forever.
Maybe you don’t remember me from the older forums. I haven’t always supported everything that they done. They have even done things that have made me scratch my head like many other players.
Show me patch notes that have actually said how the season buff works for groups. Come on now I want to see it.
Also show me where Blizz has been super transparent in all they do and say. If you say that they can’t hide things then show it.
Oh and season themes are not suppose to shake things up. Themes where they can get a little crazy for three months. Tell me it wouldn’t be crazy to do a theme like this one. Where the theme was a bad idea from the get go. Yet another head scratcher. You do know that Blizz has done things with this game that has made us scratch our heads.
Also tell me truthfully haven’t they had other things that have caused glitching or some other bug. I am sure that they have done just that.
Again I say the same thing. When has Blizz done everything so stellar they didn’t need to make any changes to what they developed.
I am trying to state that if Blizz doesn’t call it an exploit then it isn’t one. Just like the umpire in a baseball game. If he calls a person safe then he is safe, even if it was a bad call. That is unless they use instant replay to view it again. Then if they change their mind and make the right call then that person is out.
Other players or opposing team manager doesn’t have the final say as far as who is safe and who is out. That is the job of the umpires.
Leaving Blizz out of the equation where they have absolutely no right to say what is an exploit and what isn’t is just as bad as what I am doing.
Look you know me real well. You know that I am using it much like a shield. Saying that I am going by their call whether I like it or not. And I can see how something like this can happen when they have made many mistakes in this game over its lifetime.
Just be glad that I am not one of the developers because then I would show all detractors that I have full authority over the game. I would warn players that I would be about to put a special change where set bonuses, legendary gems, legendary powers, affixes from rares and magic items would be disabled. Why to show all that I have the authority to say what is an exploit and what isn’t.
Warning all of the players way before it happens and saying it is all because of those that say there is no way that the season theme could be intended as designed. Saying that I don’t have the right to call exploits and exploit and to call other things not an exploit. I think that would put it to rest as far as who has the final say in the matter.
When I speak of exploits I will have to look at anything that isn’t solo play and using only white items an exploit. Now if players can let this topic die on its own. Now that I clearly spoken my thoughts on the matter.
No-one is trying to change definitions.
We have no disagreement over the definition of what an exploit is.
We have a disagreement about whether it is one or not.
Obviously the chrysanthemum / cowpat thing was too complicated. Let’s try this…
Blizzard: “That’s not a cowpat.”
Players: “That’s a cowpat.”
The games been stale for about 10+ seasons now ,powercreeps and lack of end play I cant even do a rift before I shut it down. Good luck i might see you all in d4, maybe.