the problem you dont want to understand is that only main Stat is not that good that you think . The Stats which are good are caped on Paragon . Sure Main Stat is little bit more toughness . Maybe you can role your items little bit different but its not 20 Grift level higher its just 4-5 Grifts higher
2 Likes
donde nerf just buff the other!!! i have no problems in seeing every class doing a gr140
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At the end of the day, youâll never see a solo 150. Itâs simply too difficult. With the progression of power creep it might be possible in 4 years. We simply lack the damage to kill the mobs at that point.
Just lower the monsters HP per rift from 17% to 8% and lower the increased damage done by monsters per rift by 10% and it might be possible to clear a GR150 solo soon enough (maybe in less than few months or weeks).
Right now we should worry about which build we like to play for solo GR130-150 instead of being stuck with ONE that canât even clear even 146-149 GR even with everything maxed outâŠ
Nerfs only kill build diversity. Itâs not rocket science to simply change some numbers on underperforming sets to make them useful and good enough to push highier GRs. Such changes doesnât require weeks or months to implement, but few hours max, maybe lessâŠ
These tweaks to either support legendaries or class sets are as hard for devs as creating a post for us on the forumâŠ
The only thing that might take some time is redesigning or adding new bonuses to legendaries or setsâŠ
Lol wut. Mainstat has a huge influence.
You couldnât be more wrong, Frank. Chant is tanky, fast and powerful by default. It has proven to clear 144. The difference in damage between 140 and 144 canât be made up through fishing.
The new rend/ww build isnât very reliant on specific maps. It isnât a fishing type build. There isnât much room or many ways to pull out another gr.
Some of you are saying to nerf barb because you ASSUME that the build will clear 143 once live. Currently the top build is 140 with 10.5k paragon and 150 augs. There isnât any room to go from there. MAYBE someone can inch out another gr, but Iâm seeing 141 as max.
How many people have you seen with 10k paragon? The ptr wasnât made to balance a build off of one person. Most people I would say are 5k and under. With that type of paragon, even with high level gear, 135/136 is possible.
People should also take notice that there are only about 500 wizard clears on the PTR. The boards donât even go to 1000 for that class. Barb is full at 1000. There are a ton of people playing barb right now. Thousands of people are coming to the ptr to play barb. That means many more people are pushing with barb this ptr than have pushed with wiz in any ptr.
Chantodo has a lot more potential through key fishing than barb does.
10 Likes
The 144 clear is on the current world era leaderboard (the top wizard in the America Region is 141). It is important to note these top players are typically extremely high paragon. As such, it is fair to compare high paragon clears to each other.
EDIT: I am not sure how informative the PTR is for wizards to assess their nerf. The leaderboards were not cleared. The highest PTR clear that made the leaderboard from this PTR is 131.
Blizzard is nerfing the top wizard build. The only other class to clear higher than 140 in the current live era is necromancers. Blizzard is also nerfing that necromancer build.
For post-nerf wizards, I think that my prediction is that the top clear will be less than 144 (the live era). For post-nerf necromancers, it will be between 132 (the current PTR) and 142 (the current live era). Where precisely things will shake out, I do not know definitively and that is why I present a range. I think that I have confidence that barbs will leapfrog all other classes except maybe wizards if the all the buffs/nerfs go live as is. This is okay in my eyes as long as barbs do not end up overpowered relative to the other 6 classes. Barbs being #1 solo is fine, the problem comes if barbs are #1 by too much. I just do not know how everything will play out in terms or relative power between classes.
At the end, Blizzard is going to do what they are going to do. Blizzard knows the game data, information about top clears across servers including paragon levels and builds. Much of this information is in game/online and can be viewed by the players for themselves. One thing that we should expect by now is that it is the PTR/âPublic Test Realmâ and that the final buff/nerf numbers may change. This has happened frequently relative to the PTR and is part of the reason for the PTR in the first place in addition to finding patch bugs.
This is an incredibly strong set of gear. The average augment is 129. Oddly, his shoulders are not ancient, but the rest of his gear is really nice and augmented ancients/primals.
Edit:
I am not sure who you are referring to you. If it was me, EasyFrank is definitely not an account of mine or anyone that I know in real life nor are any of the Swedish named accounts mine.
I do not want to bump this thread. The data is going to be viewed by the developers and the final decision is theirs.
1 Like
so because a guy with 10000 paragon points clears high in test realm you want WW nerfed. you realise how much main stat that gives him? 
You nugget! you need to secure this nonsense and think! how many players during a season even get to 2000k paragon points? - precious few thats how many! edit - thats 59,000 strength he has. Think about it!!!
1 Like
Roidâs entire post is absolutely perfect. The above is, I think, the most pertinent point.
To those asking for Barb nerfs, Iâll say this:
While I donât agree with estimates that say Barb is OP (a 10k Paragon outlier should not be the representative sample for determining what 99% of players in any mode can achieve), I also point out that Barbs have been trash for years. Ifâagain, ifâweâre overpowered for a Season, SO WHAT?
Is the world going to end? Is the game going to fall apart? Will your keyboard explode? Will your cat finally pay rent?
Yâall asking for nerfs, however minor, seem only to have one argument: âBalance.â
But no one seems to know the goal post around which this âbalanceâ is supposed to happen.
The last few Seasons of Wizard have fundamentally broken the idea that all classes are more or less balanced with each other. For better or worse, Wizard has been the outlier, and any discussion that involves buffs has, to some extent or other, been forced to deal with the classâs clear potential.
The problem here is that a 140 clear is not unique to Wizards and Barbarians. Other classes are capable of such at similar (or less) Paragon. Necromancers and Witch Doctors have recorded non-Season clears at 140+, and Demon Hunters have clocked 139. Allowing Barbarians to clear 140+ doesnât disrupt balanceâit brings Barbarians into balance.
But even if it puts at the head of the pack, again I ask: SO WHAT?
One class is always, due to some factor or another, going to be stronger than others in solo potential. This is also true of group compositions; optimization will, over time, favor this over that.
Barbs have trash for years. If weâre overpowered for a Seasonâand again, I argue weâre notâitâs fine. Let us have our day in the sun without the self-appointed Balance Police demanding we get back in line and return to the garbage heap.
Pop Quiz!
If Barbs become the new #1 solo class, you should:
A. Ask for nerfs to Barb!
B. Take a flying leap!
C. Organize community efforts to get your class buffed to the level of Barbs!
D. Cry on the forum!
If you chose C, youâre correct!
19 Likes
Shouldnât they all be picking DâŠ
3 Likes
Last time I checked with +5 to the primary for every paragon point (Str | Int | Dex) the math on that is:
10,573 paragons x 5 = 52,865
That is still 20,000 more than a 5K player and pretty close to being equal to doing 4-5 extra imbues on each set piece with 100 gems versus 5K paragons. Thatâs a decent increase.
EDIT: I remember when the Crusader Akarat/Condemn build was big. Every +100 gem imbue I did gave me the facility to move an extra GR higher over 100. While it is exponentially more difficult at each 10 GRâs after 110, the extra power cannot be easily dismissed as ânot making much differenceâ.
4 Likes
WW rend barb is clearly overpowered right now and you know it Free. What happened with your desire to balance all barbarian builds and classes then?
Wasnât Blizzard exactly trying to balance all classes to about 140 GR by nerfing Chantodo Wizards? If they intended to balance around 145 GR then why they nerfed Wizards and buffed Barbarians to even higher levels?
âThe problem here is that a 140 clear is not unique to Wizards and Barbarians. Other classes are capable of such at similar (or less) Paragon. Necromancers and Witch Doctors have recorded non-Season clears at 140+, and Demon Hunters have clocked 139. Allowing Barbarians to clear 140+ doesnât disrupt balanceâ it brings Barbarians into balance.â
No, it breaks balance again, putting WW rend barbs ahead of every class by a high margin.
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Look anotherâs alt here. By the end of PTR, this user will disappear from sight until the next one when barb can receive smt but hell with it. The game is so old so I am guessing all of you will disappear in the end as well as all the player base.
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Honestly, as D3 begins to venture into the wayside, it would be nice to see multiple builds in that GR140-145 solo range.
The push to clear 150 solo should be a real option, and something that players can hunt for even after the game passes.
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Well you got it right that the margin might be too high comparing classes. The same guy also did a WD and DH clear way lower than with his Barb. So perhaps it is unbalanced now. But let Blizzard figure it out from the data, not people shouting nerf nerf on the forums.
Btw wizard that did not get any buffs did 137 with 4k Less paragon than the Barb, OP? Nerf?
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There is a PTR season clear of 133 with this build.
No augments, 1722 paragon.
Hard to tell how much the season buff has affected this clear though.
It seems a bit OP, but I am not totally certain.
Hoping Blizzard will avoid nerfing it into the ground for all Barbs sake.
It certainly is strange that new accounts keep appearing asking for nerfs or give an impression of âconsensusâ that Rend is overpowered, with their first/second post. Even more strange are their Swedish names (katten means âthe catâ, in this thread Barb Buffs in 2.6.7: Feedback and Analysis - #135 by JustinFan-1165 and now livsĂ„ngest=anxiety, angst about life).
While I canât prove that these are alts, well⊠In any case, this entire thread is childish at the very least, but also almost pathologic with people begging for nerfs to a build they donât even play. Why the hell is it bad to have strong WW/Rend? I am a 99% solo player, I thoroughly enjoyed Chantodo that let me gem up, I will enjoy Rend and then the next one. This whole PTR is a terrible experience and makes me wish for a prolonged maintenance period, just like after 2.6.1 - the only way Blizzard can stop our constant whining.
8 Likes
Why is it strange that people engage in a ptr and leave feedback?
Did you even read what I wrote?
I did not ask for nerf, just state my opinion that it seems OP.
Does not mean it is OP, that will be up to the developers to decide.
And as I already wrote the first time, I hope they will NOT nerf it into the ground.
Now please take your conspiracy theories and shove them where they belong.
Leaving feedback is great. Creating multiple accounts and post in the forums? not so great. Attacking others? even less great.
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Well I can agree with you with all of this, unless you actually think I am the owner of several accounts. Maybe other people are doing what you describe, I am not a part of that.
1 Like