They should simply fix the stupid lag bug.
#nobarbnerf
4 Likes
While nerfing rend by removing AD procs on manual cast would be a decent way to nerf the build, it wouldnât be a good way to go about it imo, because it would be very confusing. This would be a very arbitrary change to a skill âwell, it just doesnât proc AD.â âwhy ? Because we said soâ. Itâs a bit different than nerfing items, because items have a clear definition, we see what an item does. For a new player, itâs pretty straightforward: Lamentation = 150% dmg (or 100 if nerfed, whatever). But a new player will never know that rend doesnât proc AD. Thatâs not good game design IMO. And overall, I believe Blizzard has followed good game design rules to make their game, barring the ridiculously inflated numbers.
1 Like
Have you seen the whirlwind/rend thread in the barbarian forum (or even this thread)? The mechanics of ambo-applied rend and manually cast rend have already confused a ton of people and to make things even ore complicated they can overwrite each other.
The problem with area damage is that is exceptionally heavy computationally. It is inherent in how that property works and the number of calculations required in high density.
I think that a major determinant in having Ambo apply rend (and not proc AD) was to reduce server lag. Area damage contributed greatly to server issues cause by whirlwind as well as other builds in the past.
Yes, I keep hearing that story. It does not get more true by repeating. Explain why
- Lag kicks in at a certain difficulty level. Calculations donât take longer with different numbers
- Lag even when everybody has AD out
- I definitely have AD on zero. No items, no Paragon, zero in sheet. Today I whirlwinded into a huge mob cloud in battlefields, all other party members were way behind in empty area. And - laaaag.
Actually they do. A computer will take a certain amount of time to calculate 7 x 9. It will take longer for it to calculate 7777 x 9999. You can even think about this in terms of bits.
To represent the number 7, it takes three bits, while 7777 takes 13 bits.
Besides area damage, there are other things that can lag the game.
Does this mean that you feel that crusaders that have already had 7 players clear GR 150 in non-season should be nerfed as this crusader build is clearly overpowered?
2 Likes
During the 2008 Automotive recession, in order to prevent layoff, our company made decision to reduce salary by 20%, until the recession is over. To compensate, 4 day week (from 5) was implemented. WIth that, it didnât feel quite as bad.
The point I am making is, if you are going to nerf a builds from a class, you need to buff other build(s) to compensate. Look at Necro & WIz, FAR less people play them this season.
Until you buff other builds, DO NOT NERF the top build of a class!
2 Likes
There is another factor that contributes to the drop in the number of wizard and necro players. Some players just want to play the strongest class. For those players in this season, it makes sense to play two classes that both can clear GR 150, a feat that neither wizards or necromancers could ever accomplish in season (or non-seasons for that matter).
This is why it is so important to have a well-balanced game. If the power of necromancers and wizards were similar to barbs and crusaders, then more people would be playing necromancers and wizards.
1 Like
âwell, it just doesnât proc AD.â
I was thinking it would better to change Amboâs Pride to this:
Attacking with Whirlwind also applies Rend, and the total damage of Rend applied by whirlwind is dealt over 1 second.
You can still hardcast rend, and it will still proc AD, but thereâs no point because it wonât get the buff from Amboâs. The result is that WotW is still just as powerful for everybody except those pushing 140+, and Barbs still have our version of the speed meta.
I mean, letâs face it. Hardcast rend and AD is the only reason they overturned it in the first place. Nobody was using AD on the PTR.
3 Likes
I agree, the best solution if Bliz. will decide to nerf Barb.
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Wizards have been absolute GODS for 5 years, and now Crusaders and Barbs are finally good for a couple weeks and they are in a rush to nerf them?
Idiocy.
Barbs actually need BUFFS, not nerfs. They still didnât have the option of being dps/trash clearer in meta groups.
7 Likes
I think this is a way better way to change it, indeed.
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Now , low para players are being balanced in comparison to 10k para 146-150gr top clears, but soon after there will be 15k para player with 146+gr clear and everybody will be âbalancedâ more. Than comes 20k , 25k ⌠cap para at 10k!
This is just wrong. Donât think in terms of calculating on a piece of paper.
I played both and many public games, and for average players sader is clearly behind barb. Again just an issue for top lvl players.
Naturally people play the new content. When necro gets new set and new buffs everyone will play necro.
Watch a 4 man 150 meta game on twitch some day and look who does all the damage. Spoiler: wiz.
Are you an envious wiz player who wants all other classes 10 GR below himself or what?
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If that is the lv of arguments you like, i can adapt to it. To my mind it is very one sided and not well thaught but ok. First of all yes i am a wizzard only player.
If you watched it on twitch i guess you saw that this lv 150 Gr build was maybe not archon wizzard?? Spoiler alert it is another build which is uber trash for speed farming. Another spoiler alert blizzard is considering nerfing bazooka wizzard too.
Are you an envies barb player ? Wizzard was permanently nerfed when it was good at speed solo farming. Archon wizzard wouldnt be on par with the trash killer build in group play, even without the nerfs. it was good for solo push and speed farm. It was nerfed by blizzard. I would be fine with barb and even crusader if blizzard hadnt nerfed archon of the exact same reasons people are now demanding barb and crusader nerfs. You should have defended wizzard better when blizzard announced to nerf archon. This are just the consequences
Buy a game with 7 classes and play only one? Well, whatever floats your boat.
Iâm a non envious player of most classes, barb in current season. And I never asked for nerfs of any other class.
Sure, bazooka. Which they tried to nerf and failed miserably, lol. Also using archon. And we never got into specific wiz builds.
In current season average group play (1000-1500 paragon) Chantodo Vyr is pretty much the only class keeping up with the barbs (and well). Aov sader is close but struggling, monk is mostly z-monk. Dh and necro are pretty useless, wd rarely seen.
Last season Vyrtodo was totally dominating, so whatâs the problem when another class finally got moved up to it? Just leave it alone, itâs fine, and give some love to DH, Nec and WD.
2 Likes
Why? Please explain. And keep in mind I am DH only player so I will probably understand.
@StuRedman
I want to make sure that I understand your philosophy.
- Would you prefer a well-balanced game or a game where one or a few classes totally dominate?
I think that your answer is well-balanced.
- Ideally in relation to solo GR potential, what type of GR difference from the highest to lowest GR potential between classes do you consider a reasonable target for balance?
Are you ok with there being a 14 GR difference between the top and worst solo class?
Does a 4 GR difference seems like a reasonable and potentially achievable goal?
- Philosophically to achieve balance, do you prefer if the developers utilize âonly buff, never nerfâ or a combination of nerfs and buffs?
1 Like
Please donât think for me, ty.
I couldnât care less about top spots on leaderboards held by players with silly high paragon. Game should first of all be balanced around the level the majority of players achieve in a season. At that level for example the âoverperformingâ sader loses vs the barb.
Also there are roles in this aRpg. Monk is super fun for speeds and keyfarming, Barb is better at pushing higher GRs, so?
What people like you just donât get: Blizz has started doing updates, one by one. Why canât you just sit back and wait how the other classes will turn out instead of whining for nerfs of the just improved classes?
Improve peopleâs fun instead of taking away from others. Good philosophy.
5 Likes
That seems reasonable. Have you ever analyzed the in game data for player under 2.3K paragon who made the leaderboard in non-seasons. I have in this thread.
It is more than one by one. In patches 2.6.7 and 2.6.7a, 3 classes were buffed (barbs twice, monks once, crusaders once) and 3 were nerfed (wizards, crusaders, and necromancers). Therefore, Blizzard introduced balance changes for the majority of classes. Unfortunately, they clearly missed the mark on some of these modification.
I am waiting; however, Blizzard has already said that they plan to both nerf and buff as illustrated by patches 2.6.7 and 2.6.7a. Using your logic, why canât you wait to see how the balance changes turn out before invoking âonly buff, never nerfâ? I am trying to make sure that posters know Blizzards stated plans on game design so that classes are not overnerrfed or overbuffed.
There were 3 classes just improved (monk, barbs and crusaders). They differ at the top end by 7 GRs. So even the just improved classes have siginificant differences.
Stating what Blizzard has posted is not âwhiningâ, it is simply providing information. Whining typically involves wanting something changed that is happening contrary to your personal desires.
When the PTR patch 2.6.7 notes were released, how many players complained on these forum about the thorns necromancer nerf? It was very, very few. Moreover, even necromancer players advocated for a nerf for thorns necromancer even before it was announced. There was more who complained about the wizard nerf, but it really was not that many people. The majority of posters who voiced an opinion were in favor of the nerfs.
I have one and only one seasonal character (linked below). I main a barb this season. Even playing barbs exclusively over the past couple of months, I endorse a minor barb nerf to align it with Blizzard balance goals. I have modest paragon ~1200 in season 19. Barbs at this paragon level outperform all classes with the possible exception of crusaders. Of note, barbarians and crusaders are also the top 2 classes in non-season at low paragon.
https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/MicroRNA-1507/hero/116200754
2 Likes
Like barb getting close to wizard at last?
Vyr chantodo is keeping up just fine at this level.
Not true. Just read Freeâs barb petition thread.
3 Likes