According to the information provided by Matthew Cederquist, 3 classes based on their current GR clears fall significantly outside (~ 5 GRs or more) of their GR target for high paragon players with outstanding gesr.
The topic of this thread is to get specific suggestions/recommendations on how to:
- Buff necromancers
- Nerf crusaders
- Nerf barbarians
This thread is not about whether these classes should or should not be changed. If you want to discuss this issue, please feel free to make your own thread. The goal is to receive specific suggestions to make proportional changes so that the result is not an overbuff or overnerf.
4 Likes
To nerf Barbarians and Crusaders, merely target the 2 sets that have disproportionately impacted play: Wastes with Rend (I told people this, nobody listened and clamored for the Lamentation buff to be revived) and Aegis of Valor and Heaven’s Fury. Reduce those buffs, and let HotA builds and BS builds rally. Maybe buff Akhhans or IK.
Necromancers need a rework to the 3 sets not named Rathma. Pestilence should be about corpses and poison, not just Lance. Buff Trag in a non linear way, and make Inarius do more with actual Bone skills.
4 Likes
Barbie was bottom of the barrel in DPS for ages, and Sader has been out of group META for well …ages.
Finally Sader is part of the cool kid group again, and Barbie is more than support, any nerf has to be within reason.
I don’t think the nerf should be more than 25% of current powers. Otherwise it will piss of many Sader/ Barbie players.
In fact I think deduce Damage from manual rend will Ben enough and probably best as it wasn’t intended of design
For Sader I said reduce 6 piece damage bonus but by 15% but buff dark light damage by 60%.
For Necro, give them bracers with damage reduction if use a primary skill or something. Also buff base skeletons and golem damage. They are useless now as main source of damage.
This is irrelevant. There is a new dev team in town and they are aiming to achieve some sort of balance. As such the outliers must be looked at. Their goal seems to be around 141GR nonseason so clearly those two clases are way too strong. Bazooka wizard is also one that needs to get nerfed severly as it has been the undisputed trashkiller for far too long. It’s also way too strong solo.
Other than that, tuning for season seems very hard depending on what type of buffs they plan to add next.
5 Likes
For both the strength classes, tuning the 2-piece bonuses would be the way to go, I think.
Edit:I’ve also heard some streamers say that the AoV set would be fine as-is if you remove the animation cancelling (stutter-stepping).
Edit2: To reflect the good discussion below: I think the best option by far to change Wrath of the Wastes is to make the 3-second window of the 4-piece apply to damage reduction only, and not triple rend damage. Normal WhirlRend is uneffected. Hardcast Rend is killed.
3 Likes
It is fine to leave Barb and Crusader alone.
However, Necro and other classes are certainly need some buff.
Rathma set and Firebird set are so pathetic at this moment.
21 Likes
Removing the statterstep as mean to nerf. I can board this train.
4 Likes
Firebird has playstyle problem, not just damage.
10 Likes
Demon Hunters need buffs also
23 Likes
Do not touch the Barbs. I am sick of this - nerf this, nerf that, nerf everything just because some 3K or higher PL - Player reached higher Grifts. Many players dont have so much PL and are not interested in a Barb who is too weak again.
32 Likes
This topic should be about Build/Set balance. Not about class balance.
I don’t understand how you selected classes in your original post. Something is missing there.
You can not discuss about balance if you don’t take into account how Build works.
I would surely hope someone reaching 4k-5k in paragons can finally beat gr 150 and call it a done game.
4 Likes
Only thing about crusader that needs a nerf is either stutterstep or better yet, fix AoV. Crusaders need love, if anything.
See link for a few good ideas: 2.6.8 Buff Requests - Crusader Community collection - #24 by Toclmi-1596
2 Likes
This actually quite true. Different sets act, and succeed, differently.
But, I am scratching my head here. When I look at normal solo leaderboards for Europe and America, I do not see OP Barbs. I see the America board showing a 143 Barb clear and the EU board showing a 144 Barb clear, but neither of those is extreme since Witchdoctor had a 143 clear. Heck, wizard and monk are in the same range. To be exact, both have 142 clears. A difference of only 2 is pretty minor.
That said, with 150 clears by Crusaders and only 136 by Necros, the offending set for Crusaders needs a change and SOMETHING needs to be done to help Necros.
Why am I not including Season or group numbers?
Season has a huge problem. It is amusing to watch things happen, but it also makes getting higher clears much easier. The once off effects are bad enough, but remember, you also get a passive damage increase. This means that 500 kill streak increases your damage by 50% and if you get 1000, it means a 100% increased damage. That messes up anything about trying to compare set strength since some sets can keep those numbers up easier than others.
Group play is even worse. If you look at the group boards, you have weird things like 4 man clears where only 1 person gets credit. Almost all 150 clears have a crusader in them. Group clears are more on how the sets interact and support than on how the individual set performs. This creates a level of complexity you need an AI to figure out.
So, yeah, there needs to be some changes, but go look at normal solo rather than group or seasonal numbers.
1 Like
When I say class balance, I am referring to the top solo build for each class being more on par with each other.
They said they are going to buff Demon Hunters in the near future… probably wont be until late spring/early summer tho as there’s not many folks working on balances and patches now as there used to be
1 Like
Why exclude Asia? Barb from CH did 146.
1 Like
I cannot find a working link.
The diablo3.com.cn did not load any stats. It just sat at the base page trying to load the stats until it timed out.
If you have a working link, let me know. I do remember China having a high Barb clear, but I didnt want to trust my memory.
In that case it is really not fair to compare RapidFire build to top builds for other classes.
RapidFire build is not on par with top solo builds for other classes because it is used only for pushing solo while other top build for other classes can be used efficiently for other things in game.
This is one of the reasons why RapidFire is miles away from AOV , WW/Rend Vyr Builds in terms of popularity.
I will repeat again. All Demon Hunter builds not named RapidFire need huge buff because they are even more behind than top Necromancer build.
Demon Hunter had nice intra class balance with few different builds.
I also think they should make few relevant builds for each class. Not only one build.
2 Likes
In other topic I explained how you can use Blizzard API for this.
For now you can check clears here:
http://ranks.zeroempathy.org/e12.barbarian
1 Like