Nephalem Glory is Holding Us Back (recreated)

Console Discussion
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I just discovered the old forums have been taken offline.

We had a thread on that old forums entitled “Nephalem Glory is Holding Us Back” which detailed the concerns we Seasonal end game players have with the Nephalem Glory mechanic.

I wish I knew the old forums were going offline as there was lots of valuable information in that thread that was verified by our Community Managers here.

I tried archived website engines like WayBack but sadly they never captured the posts.

I want to summarize the points from that thread from memory to ensure we have the correct information…the thing about the old forum post was the points were backed up by our blue Community Moderators.

I would love they pop into this thread to confirm the information.

Anyway, here are the points (please correct me if I’m wrong anywhere).

  • Nephalem Glory works differently on PC compared to Consoles
  • On PC they get a small speed boost and do not get them in GR’s
  • On Console they “double damage”
  • It seems on Console without NG we do less damage than PC
  • With NG we do similar damage to PC
  • Hence we clear the same GR levels with the same builds when we have NG
  • Monster health on Console is higher ONLY when you are under Level 70 and not on Torment difficulty
  • If Level 70 and on any Torment difficulty then monster health is identical on PC and Console

These points above were confirmed by the Community Managers.

The issues we face with NG are:

  • You have to kill ten enemies to get it at the start of a GR meaning you are doing less damage
  • You cannot stack it before a GR is opened
  • You lose it upon death
  • You get LESS NG with HIGHER Kill Streaks (wrong way round)
  • You have to stop killing enemies to get NG which is opposite to the point of the game
  • Pets or DoT effects make dropping kill streaks impossible and thus getting NG very hard
  • Destroys endgame play by having to get and maintain NG
  • Die to RG you are doing less damage as no NG
  • It is an EXTRA mechanic to maintain compared to PC when competing in Seasons

Proposed solutions are simple…for Seasons…in GR’s…give players the NG buff and stop them having to collect the orbs to get the buff so we are on par with PC.

We understood why NG is what it is in patch 2.06 on D3 on Consoles but not now in patch 2.67.

It needs reworked.

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So why does it seem we do less damage on Console ? Are the enemy HP higher to compensate for the lower density ? Is the damage calculation different on console than PC ? Is it simply due to the fact that it’s harder to keep the density based damage bonuses up (like PE, Stricken or Gogok Stacks)

I find it highly unlikely that this will be addressed this late in the game, but I’d love to be wrong.

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I think you are mixing up with NG & density, it is two different issue altogether.

Correct me if any1 knows this is just what I though in the beginning or being told. NG started when there are NO GR RIFTs to begin with. It do not seems to be a problem in fact no many played INFERNO really seriously since it is almost run by 3sockets there are a few legit. Our end game at that time is hunting diablo or just run endlessly in story mode.

In inferno it is not like now when we see elites we dun even know they exist or they are taken down less than 5 Seconds, imagine without Lgems, Items are not buff, you be having problem with them even if you are well equip. The problem is with or without NG no one really notice because we are going to spend some time with elites or boss.

NG was created like arcade style, you pick up stuff etc. Consoles was meant to be different from PC. So we had loot 2.0 AT FIRST, legends sent on our mailbox, nemesis system. In theory consoles earn legends way faster than PC. Remember guys this was inferno stage.

NG in short… forget about whatever health or theory you hear. to put it simple you are doing 50% less damage WITHOUT picking up NG. This is nothing or could not see a change because no one expects changes where we are now.

Come UEE/ROS expansion now with the power creep GR with endless mops health scale. NG becomes a big problem. As said earlier in inferno how many players really bother to hunt diablo/elites it took them a while to kill so be it is 1 min or 5min it really does not bother or any1 to notice NG is in fact in play.

Now consoles have season & LB players would tend to look at NG now. Is it a problem yes obviously… iS it hard to solve this issue nope in fact.

We dun need a professional or genius level for change, we can always go for the lazy method or effortless method. There are a lot of ways in fact.

GR is what almost every power creep is in place & obviously NG is MOST needed there so if I may suggest. Everything REMINDS THE SAME

But once you OPEN A GR, there be a 15mins Buff IN GR ONLY. We get 15mins of NG worth in that GR.

So players can pick up NG or ignore NG since there is a 15mins BUFF. Picking up NG is not going to get you double damage in GR. Every buffs is remove when opening up a GR so I can say it is pretty simple to ADD that 15mins buff of NG ONLY IN GR level. when you leave GR again no buffs of NG everything reminds the same.

Again this method might be difficult on Blizz but in anyway I really felt this is really simple on my end. Next if blizz is afraid of NG buffs as I mention the buffs only works on that 15mins GR if you leave/close GR, everything remains the same like what we are seeing in D3 game now. Dun think it effect any new gameplay or change anything really.

but it change the GR dynamics now instead of going in with less than 50% dmg, worry about my attack counts because no NG spawn after 200kills, I need to pick up NG because it is more important than health globe.

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Posted by Nevalistis

After some thorough investigation, we’ve found why some of your reports differ in result from the ones we’ve produced internally.

Here’s the down low:

  • There are some differences between Console and PC with monster health; however this is only below level 70 and on Normal and Hard difficulties

    • Why? It was a “tuning by gameplay feel” decision, as well as a consequence of Console originally having a different number of difficulty settings than PC.

  • At level 70 on Torment I or above, all monsters should have identical health pools on console as they do on PC.

While Nephalem Glory does function differently on console, it is not a consideration in our tuning numbers for monster health or otherwise. Most of the differences that exist between platforms are mechanical ones meant to make the game feel good with the different camera angles and game controls that are unique to the console. Nephalem Glory doesn’t serve to bring console in parity with PC; its bonus was tuned around the rest of the game, not vice versa.

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Posted by Tias (MVP)> [

Jan 22, 2016](Diablo 3 Forums)

Just a note about the following: I’m not trying to come off as confrontational, but in light of the response you’ve been given to relay to us, this really does need to be said (and addressed further).

01/21/2016 05:07 PMPosted by Nevalistis

There are some differences between Console and PC with monster health; however this is only below level 70 and on Normal and Hard difficulties
Why? It was a “tuning by gameplay feel” decision, as well as a consequence of Console originally having a different number of difficulty settings than PC.

Well, I hate to break it to them, but it feels awful pre-70. I should know - everything has >2x HP vs. PC meaning the NG buff is required to always be up if I want to kill anything within a reasonable amount of time at the same gear levels as on my PC characters. There is no disputing this. The moment you lose the buff you kill half as fast, which on the bosses really stinks because they have more than 2x HP. They have 2.5x HP and you have no NG buff to equalize that.

Both games now have the same difficulty lineups. It’s time to nuke NG from orbit and equalize those monsters’ HP. This one really isn’t that hard to digest. And no, the argument “it’s not endgame” doesn’t matter. All of the game should feel good. Leveling up does not.

There is no way in hell a LV 1 player that does Butcher on console is going to kill the boss anywhere near the speed a PC player will. Not when the console version has 570 HP vs. 228 on the PC side and the NG buff isn’t present. Hell, even with the NG buff present it would still take longer to kill.

I fail to see the logic in the “makes the game better” argument, because it doesn’t. And why were the difficulties lined up but not the rest? That makes no sense, and no, the controls argument doesn’t hold up with this big a difference.

At level 70 on Torment I or above, all monsters should have identical health pools on console as they do on PC.

I’ll have to give this a whirl once I find incentive to play (that five second cast timer on the bounty objects is really becoming irksome, especially with the NG issue present at the same time).

This does not, however solve the problem of NG being required prior to Torment at LV 70 either. In fact it makes getting to Torment that much more painful on console than on PC, something I’m sure to experience once I get there since I have both and will have played both at that point in time.

01/21/2016 05:07 PMPosted by Nevalistis

While Nephalem Glory does function differently on console, it is not a consideration in our tuning numbers for monster health or otherwise. Most of the differences that exist between platforms are mechanical ones meant to make the game feel good with the different camera angles and game controls that are unique to the console. Nephalem Glory doesn’t serve to bring console in parity with PC; its bonus was tuned around the rest of the game, not vice versa.

That may have been the intent, but from the reaction of the players, especially when you factor in that they can’t get anywhere near the GR completion rate or adventure mode progression rate that the PC side can, it isn’t having its intended effect, especially when you consider elites and bosses. From what I’ve experienced and what the other players here have experienced, the game sure feels like it’s tuned around NG and not the other way around.

01/21/2016 05:55 PMPosted by ZhaetorZhae

Also, it would be really nice to have the option to turn on monster health numbers (instead of bars). This would give us a 1/1 comparison of mob health.

This is a very fair point. After the admission that pre-70 and LV 70 below Torment 1 is not equal (very blatantly not equal in fact), players are probably not exactly feeling the faith here since that information is obsfuscated on the console. If the numbers are truly equal then the console devs should have zero issues with enabling the viewing of player/monster HP numbers above the bars like PC has.

Thus far what the players are experiencing and what the devs are saying don’t match up. The argument that “players who only have the console version won’t know any better” is a moot point - there are tons of players that have experience with both the PC and console versions and know exactly where those differences lie.

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tricky to find the right link, but on google, you have an arrow beside the link, that lets you see a cached version of the page. thats how i got the info.

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Isn’t another issue with NG that if a rift guardian takes more than 3 minutes to kill if it had no adds there is no possibility to have and NG for the remainder of the fight?

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Awesome work Eddie! Cheers!

Yes that is an issue when you die to the RG…I covered dying resetting the buff but yeah your stuck if you die to the RG and he has no adds as you cannot spawn NG and therefore gimped in power.

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No, I realize they’re 2 separate issues, what I don’t get is that if everything else but density is the same ? Why the feeling we’re doing less damage, there has to be a reason for that, right ?

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Quick fix would be either making NG last forever and apply to all players on the same level. Or, it needs to be removed completely.

NG doesn’t feel like fun mechanic, it’s a chore. Making NGs, dropping kill counts, maintaining NG buff throughout the rift, moving around the pack to pick up more NGs, etc. The intentions were good, but, in its current state, NG mechanic is hated by all who understand how it works.

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I would agree it doesn’t work together with the infinite scaling difficulty well. I think I’d rather see it work like it does on PC.

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Exactly, and we get the double damage without having to collect it so we do the same damage as PC.

NG only really affects GR’s so simply remove NG from GR’s and give us the buff for the GR and that sorts it.

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I cannot explain why is the reason I believe that answer is too vague like asking why D3 total combine sales with xb1/ps3/xb360/switch cannot win just PS4 OW sales. Is OW a better game or have a better marketing team or no consoles players prefer ARPG over FPS.

I can explain density effect.

  1. if lesser mops means more time consume, example 2 open rifts in PC will spawn RG now lesser mops with consoles means 2 open rifts with 1 random 3rd floor spawn RG.

  2. AD means what density you have deals whatever dmg. Simple math, RG spawn 0 minion meaning you deal 0% AD even if you have 100% AD. Now example Skeleton king spawns 7skeleton surrounding it. 100% becomes 700% on skeleton king. Consoles because of density might spawn 5 skeletons surrounding it. So 500% you get the big picture?

  3. not much on density but NG effect, ask any1 if NG spawns right in front of you or instead behind you or somewhere you need to travel to. let’s assume you take 1 second to pick up NG. Well a 15min GR how many seconds you waste :slight_smile:

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They could change the duration of the globes and increase the cap.

1 min/globe & 15 min cap

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maybe the next season can be called “Season of Nephalem Glory” and we have perma NG during the whole season - Console only :slight_smile: heh

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Yeah, I get the basic idea here. To add to that, density will impact the dmg bonuses of certain legendary gems like Pain Enhancer, Stricken, Gogok etc. This is why builds like N6M4 don’t compete on Console etc.

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Correction on N6M4 I cannot deny this build shine a lot on density & consoles will suffer as you mention…

but in fact it is still a meta just not every1 plays seriously but to add to that statement I remember clearly one of my mate is pushing it( where crimson was not born yet btw) yes S6 is meta still but as everyone only sees the top builds when in fact he is rank pretty high. When ALL the top 5 is at Lgem140 Aug140+ maybe 13x primals & insane paragon(would not say insane but at least co op in high GR)

He is around top10 FYI if he is doing GR120 his Lgems is 120 or 123 at most aug 100 & he NEVER CO OP so impossible to even get P1500(he is not active btw he only play D3 when he is bored or waiting for a new game) Now slap 140Lgems n Paragons or the primals I bet he can rank higher.

Gogek never relies on density even if you hit the same enemies you can still get stacks btw… moreover Stricken only works for 1 enemy so dun really need density… Pain yes I would totally agreed with you :slight_smile:

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That wouldn’t really fix anything. If you die, you still have to make DD…somehow. DD only has 30yd pickup radius which forces players drop kill counts, tether barb and constantly watch DD timer.

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Fair enough. Thx for the explanation

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It’s better than 20 secs/3 min cap. It would be easier to code rather getting rid of it altogether.