To me OP has a lot of things marked as harmless that to me is questionable. And for Anya portal it will still stay open if you kill Nithy just don’t get the way point to keep portal open to farm pindle. I see a lot of this. Let’s get 1.14 out and let people play and refresh themselves or get acquainted with D2 if it is their first time. T
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I look at the features objectively, and based everything I marked that way. This isn’t to say I am 100% correct in any way, shape or form, but I try to be as close as possible. The idea of this list is purely to bring exposure to these features so that we may discuss them in a single thread.
So if you feel something doesn’t seem correct about my assessment of the nature of each feature, by all means you’re free to explain here and debate with us.
Everyone’s representation of the features in the list are necessary for a fair and level grounds in which the developers can then scrutinize and decide whether or not it is a good idea to make a change or to leave the asset alone.
I understand as much. I use the phrasing and wording I did purely because there are people who straight up do not do anything beyond Pindleskin, where as others do kill Nihlathak and grab the way point and decide to go from there.
Just the way I decided to approach it is all. 
OK lol a debate isn’t needed everyone has their opinions and that’s great. I just stated I prefer get a base game out then patch it later was my main point. There are people who have never played D2. I just think there could be better feedback once people refresh or starting playing it
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First of all, i see you put alot of work into your post, and i do appreciate the effort, but i feel it needs to be said eighter way.
I do have to agree with the quotes below. I feel like this post is biased based on opinion, therefore cannot be viewed upon as anything else than just that, an opinion. By this i mean, it shouldn’t be your place to decide what is, and what is not a QoL or what people consider game breaking changes, harmless or harmfull.
Please don’t take this as an attack or aggression, because it is not my intent. 
I mean, this is the perfect example, how can this post not be biased based on personal opinion when there are so many people against such a change? This should in the very least be in the mixed bag. And there are also other sections who are questionable to me and others.
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Precisely. It’s all opinions based on objective observations. Interpretation isn’t going to be 100% correct, which this thread is open for, to debate them.
I am completely open to talking about why the way I rated the features is wrong or right or weird.
The basis to getting people to discuss something is to express your own opinion and to inform everyone that you’re not out to impress upon anyone that you are in any way trying to say that they are absolute, which I have done and accomplished. :>
Well, the way I see it, I look at it from a technical design standpoint. I point out that it is a system that performs the exact same thing the game already does, but using a more refined approach and improves upon the idea of the game - a looter ARPG, by improving the ability to actually find items for those of us who like to keep a full inventory for maximum performance characters.
The idea that most people do not like this change is subjective and doesn’t actually provide any grounds as to why it shouldn’t be allowed. The argument that it isn’t ‘good’ is based on nostalgia and or wanting to keep the game as close to the original design as possible.
If we instead embraced an objective outlook on the idea, we’d see less “HOMG THIS SUCKS NO!” and more “HOMG! This could improve the game but I don’t want to change the game, because I want to keep it original as possible, SO NO!” and don’t get me wrong, there are people that actually have responded in the latter example, albeit not so aggressively lol.
Again, this is not me saying I am correct, but my explanation of the feature is almost completely without bias. I say “almost” because I only used a vague example, such as ““most players” choosing to keep their inventory full” without actually having any evidence, but the majority of long time Diablo 2 veterans can agree with the assessment.
Charm inventory isn’t a “refined” approach, it’s a bloody mindless “I don’t want to make choices I just want to farm, and I want the game to be easier”.
Come on man, it’s biased, and we all know it.
“improves upon the game”
No. No it doesn’t.
You know what? using your logic, let’s go ahead and add 5 weapon slots, doesn’t that seem like it would provide smooth gameplay? Sacred had 5 so let’s go with it…clearly modern is better…
Come on guys, you aren’t even trying to hide your bias, while at the same time saying “this is objective and unbiased” give me a break.
Also, nostalgia has nothing to do with it. Charms are a tradeoff, they were designed to annoy you in exactly the way they do. They’re designed for people who want to min/max, and go as fast as possible, while adding an ACTUAL SKILL CAP to a genre that typically doesn’t have one.
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Well, in the threads you linked in your original post, there are alot of valid good arguments against it.
The mechanic behind charms has always been, a trade of power versus inventory convenience. Taking away that cost removes a very important decision making part of the game. Inventory management is a core part of Diablo 2, as it’s always been.
RG: When we approached quality of life on this game, we definitely wanted to make the game more accessible, but not easier. So things like making the inventory huge, or making it so all of your items can stack, right? Picking which loot to take and discard is still an important decision, so we’re not going to make the game easier.
And: Our goal right now is to offer you an authentic Diablo II gaming experience. We will indeed make this game more accessible, but that doesn’t necessarily end up making it easier. That is our mindset. But we also continue to hear feedback from gamers who had tasted Technical Alpha yesterday.
If some players, or the majority as you claim do fill their inventory with charms eighter way, that is a choice they make. There are many people, including me, that actually do prefer having available space for item pickups instead of min-maxing unnecessary power. So to these people, a charm inventory would be a powercreep.
Not to mention the advantages a charm inventory gives in the leveling stages, where most people actually play multiplayer, where available loot space is a big factor to be able to compete in the FFA loot system. With a charm inventory, everyone would be able to pick up and use every charm that drops (Making the game easier), but also be able to contest for loot.
And the final point brings me to potion stacking. Having a charm inventory allows you to carry a substantial amount of potions in your inventory, also providing a buff to your character.
The whole idea behind the design was space vs. power. That was the tradeoff. That was the point. I like how it balances that. In the end, there are few items you want to pick up anyhow. Plus I’m a big anti-inventory-space designer." David Brevik
TLDR; A charm inventory removes a big part of Diablo 2 in regards to decision making whether or not to carry potions, charms or have free space to loot items.
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This right here is actually just narcissistic. “My idea of how to change this game is objectively better, and everyone else is clearly just nostalgic”
No. No, that’s clearly narcissistic thinking. Objective? how is anything you possibly said about a charm inventory objective?
We understand you clearly want the game to be easier, and more modern. None of this is objectively better than the way Diablo2 works now.
You state that it could improve the game, and the only valid argument is that the rest of us are just against change in general. Did you ever think maybe it’s just a terrible design choice? "let’s add this 10x4 grid, and let players throw their best charms in there for every character, with no tradeoff whatsoever. " Yeah, no thanks, that sounds super boring.
No choices= bad game design.
Charm inventory = you stack your best 10x4 charms, very little choice at all.
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The point is, in modern games, they usually make the decisions for you. So all you have to do is run around and slay monsters indefinately.
Diablo 2 has always been different, which is why it has always been my favorite game.
Decisions in games creates depth and immersion. It makes you feel good about your character and your choices as you play the game.
If they removed such things, all we would be left with is a mindless hack n’ slash experience with rare loot in my opinion.
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Let’s look at the game’s version history real quick - a history lesson if you will!
- The game had begun development in 1999 by Blizzard North.
- The resolution the game had been working with during development was 800x600 at the time.
- Developers at Blizzard North stated themselves that they were done and over with Diablo as a title shortly after Diablo 1. They did not want to make Diablo 2 nor were interested, but their public base begged for it, and so they developed it against their better judgement as they had previously begun theorycrafting ideas for a different game.
- Most of the features in Diablo 2 are BROKEN if that doesn’t give you a hint as to why certain features were never fixed. Y’know, a big one being skills, others being the security of Diablo 2 Battle.net integration at the time. Duping, hacking, botting, etc.
- Blizzard Irvine never intended to fix anything when they released its most recent patches prior to Resurrected announcement. Those were intended to appease the audiences as any respectable company would with an IP under their name that is still rolling strong to this day. It’s just good business. (while completely undermining the game by letting it be as is in its current state)
The game is enshrouded in complete and utter neglect because of several factors;
(Keep in mind, every time I mention “Irvine” and “North” alongside “Blizzard” is an attempt to distinguish between a company that developed Diablo 2 (Blizzard North) and the company that merely owns the IP (Blizzard Irvine)
Blizzard Irvine at the time they completely took ownership of Diablo 2 was developing what would become the largest cash cow on the planet in regards to gaming, regardless of whether or not they were aware of its upcoming successful tenure related to their, at the time most popular game, Warcraft 3 - World of Warcraft. They had nobody to spare for development on Diablo 2 and thus it took a backseat.
Let’s take a look at version history here;
Ver. 1.09 - 2001 - The last patch to Diablo 2 that introduced many major changes/fixes
Ver. 1.09b - 2001 - Minor fixes
Ver. 1.09c - 2001 - 1 major fix, rest are minor
Ver 1.09d - 2001 - Minor fixes
Starting to see a pattern here… No attempts to make sure the game isn’t breaking every month.
Ver 1.10 - 2003 - New content and consequently, the last patch to be released by original Blizzard North crew. Most of the original Diablo 2 crew has left Blizzard North.
Ver 1.11 - 2005 - New Content with very little thought put into it compared to the last Major Content patch. Blizzard North is now dissolved.
Ver 1.11b - 2005 - Another minor bug fix patch.
Ver 1.12 - 2008 - Bringing their IPs to a more modern standard to make the game more easy to install plus one minor bug fix.
Ver 1.13c - 2010 (Not sure where 1.13 went, guess ‘c’ was more attractive) - Blizzard North introduced a feature that gained a LOT of traction in WoW - Respec ability. some major bug fixes unrelated to gameplay outside of duping which never got fixed and aura stacking which to my knowledge is still slightly broken. May need a citation here. Some minor bug fixes.
Ver 1.13d - 2011 - Bringing Diablo 2 into more modern Battle.net standards. “Fixes” duping again! Some minor fixes.
ANYWAY. The thought I am trying to illustrate here is the game was abandoned very early on with more focus on adding “new” content rather than actually fixing or improving anything what so ever while there was never true intent to support the game.
Call it “a part of the game” if you will, I’m not here to tell you you’re wrong, but to dismiss the fact that the game stayed in standards brought on by 1999-2000 game design and not see past the thought that it’s “thoughtful decision making” being the reason why the inventory is so small and charms being the crux in which makes or breaks a character and refusing to accept that the game would most likely have been improved to meet a more modern standard is just pot calling the kettle black. I use this idiom purely because even though I use the evidence I have presented, it is also partly speculation because I have no definitive proof that the game would’ve been improved if Blizzard North actually had cared about it or if Blizzard Irvine cared to continue its development.
The conclusion here is people are looking at this without digging into the past, reading about what actually happened with the game, why it came to be, why it was left in the sorry state it was developed in - especially when amongst other Blizzard titles that received a lot more attention and improvements.
Now, is this saying that any of the features I listed SHOULD happen? Of course not! But would they improve the game? Absolutely! They’re improvements on the systems as any other ARPG has proven - hell, even some Diablo 2 mods!
(we’re going to continue to use Path of Exile for comparison because it is a very well designed game, ignoring some very major behind-the-scenes issues with the renderer - and it is also the Diablo franchise’s direct competition and bane)
Path of Exile has meaningless combat, as you just rock up and smash everything without holding down a button or two and the further you get into the game, you’re beginning to turn it into micromanegement hell, but it’s a through-and-through looter to the core. It gives your character a rather respectable inventory size and mostly infinite stash space. It encourages looting like there is no tomorrow.
It even did away with the idea of including anything in your inventory that gives you power because the idea is to not clutter your inventory with anything but treasure. Simple as that.
Going as far to say that charms are space vs power choices is one way of looking at it but it is not an argument against why Charm Inventory could improve the game, it is an argument against why it should/should not be included. Two very different scenarios.
If you can explain to me in very simple terms why you would rather not have the option to pick up five 2x4 Hydra Bows or a mix therein of several different 2x4 items, and instead be relegated to a single 1x2 item or a single 1x3 item, or two 1x3 items and have to go back to town, dump your entire inventory -
which mind you is a chore and a half, not “a more difficult game feature that gives it meaning”, it is lack of game design finesse on Blizzard Irvine’s part - then go back and pick up all of your items, then place THOSE items in your stash or even put them on the ground in front of your stash because your myriad of charms took your entire stash up for what space was left in it - - - I would love to hear it.
But keep in mind, it is just a nostalgic or stubborn belief in a game design you hold dear to your heart and I respect that but it doesn’t provide justification against fixing a very broken game - that again - has to compete with very very well designed ARPGs that are more modern and will likely continue to keep its playerbase when everyone that plays those games gives Diablo 2 Resurrected a chance and gets bored because it forces them to submit to a standard of the past that doesn’t work any more.
eeeeeee–… my bad, huge wall of text, but it’s worth the read, lol.
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Just because design is old, doesnt mean its bad. Just because something has restrictions and cost doesnt make it bad. Just because something isnt to your liking doesnt make it bad design.
This statement right here, is just bias BS. You just saying “Just remember, your just to blinded and short sighted to understand the truth but its ok to be blind.”
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Never once did I say that it wasn’t to my liking. I could play this game through and through without any changes to it.
I dunno about bias, more so truth. Am I wrong though?? I literally just provided tons of evidence of the game being abandoned, broken and left to rot.
It’s not wrong to want the game to stay the same.
It is wrong to deny the fact the game is broken and that a Charm Inventory would greatly improve upon what the game is designed to do, provide you loot and a way to pick it up! You’re simply moving charms to an inventory that doesn’t impede on the very aspect of a looter. You gain no more power, even!
Unless, of course, you want the power to hold more items and more power to STAY in the ACTION. Then yes, you gain more power.
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I would take d2’s loot system over poe’s Any day, and I’ve played PoE nearly every day for a month, and the entire last league.
Competing doesn’t mean we need to copy an inferior game. Diablo2 is still the most repayable Arpg in the market, 20 years later.
Torchlight- yeah right
PoE - it’s good (for a free game)
D2 doesn’t need to copy any game.
Those games all tried to copy d2 and failed miserably.
D2 doesn’t need to be streamlined to autopilot looter. D3 is an autopilot looter, and it is vastly inferior, even with its much larger stash.
Clearly you’re missing something d2 has.
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How can a game with litteral legendary status be stated as a broken game? Why would the diehard fans of Diablo 2 specifically request the game to be rereleased as a remaster without it’s quirks being patched?
Path of Exile is a completely different game. Diablo 2 should in no circumstance try to mimic or replicate Path of Exile in any way, because Diablo 2 is different. Both are ARPG’s, but they are different.
I proved a quote from the original game designer lead, stating that the exact purpose. Just because this mechanic is not introduced in modern ARPGs doesn’t mean it’s a bad mechanic.
The thing is, i would rather do just that. Which is why i usually make the decision to not fill my entire inventory with charms. Because it is unnecessary, it is min-maxing mentality and min-maxing with charms come at a cost, inventory space. But because i want space to pick up items, doesn’t mean i want free additional power from charms who aren’t designed to equipable equipment, but charms.
That is, infact a choice you have made when you decide to min-max your character using charms. Simple solution to your boring chore is to relieve your inventory of charms.
A broken game, that diehard fans have been crying out for a remaster for for probably 10 years, to be just that, a remaster. Not to moderize the game mechanics, but to update it’s graphics, give it widescreen support, fix networking issues and most importantly, remove cheating.
D2:R isnt being remastered to compete with modern ARPG’s. It is for old players to experience nostalgia and new players to experience what Diablo 2 was like and why it has left behind such a legacy. I am pretty sure blizzard said that themselves. Diablo 4 is the game that will compete with newer modern ARPGs.
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Games designed around looting, yes and the charm systems Designed around reducing looting space for power.
More so Truth? No, you just think anyone who disagrees with you on charm inventories is ignorant.
There are a large number of threads were post countless opinions on why they dont want or dont like how a charm inventory will impact the game.
You just think they are all wrong, because You want it and view it as a Harmless addition, so all those people are too Blinded and Ignorant to understand.
Just from the discourse around the topic PROVES its not Harmless, its a hot button issue even on the forums.
Just because a game stops getting updates doesnt mean the systems are wrong or broken. Your “proof” that a company doesnt update a 20 year old game anymore literally means nothing when it comes to if game systems are working as they are intended to work.
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I actually disagree with you completely that it’s wrong to deny the game is broken.
Other than the technical difficulties with combating cheating, I don’t think the game is broken at all. There are some minor bug issues with skills, but other than that, broken? No.
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Actually, wasn’t impressing that it needed to be a copy or a clone of any other game, was merely stating that those games get the looting aspect right. Whether or not you like it is another story. Whether or not you think it should be that way in Diablo 2 is also another story.
The conclusive argument here is that we’re denying a feature that would literally improve the game. Doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll make it better for some people because some people like the torturous aspect of picking up one item out of several other items on the ground and having to go back and store it to pick up the others… again… and again…
As I have stated, I couldn’t care less what they do, I am merely fighting for features that other people haven’t really tried to defend because I’ll be honest, fact checking before posting is not fun.
Diablo 2 was genre defining. It had no competition to compare it to.
Indeed, different in that it’s not Diablo 2. They are, however, both ARPGs, both Looters, both Hack n Slash. However, Diablo 2 has infinitely more meaningful combat.
Quote from D2R’s principal designer, not Diablo 2 or Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction.
and you’re right in your want to do that. I have no right to tell you it’s not okay to do so, but I am allowed to inform that isn’t the most effective use of the game’s remaster status.
This is the mindset we were wrapped around because we had no other games to set the rules straight for the ARPG scene because Diablo 2 stood on its own, all alone.
Correct, and unfortunately a remaster has to provide something another game doesn’t and if it can’t, it needs to match the standard or it won’t compete. We all recognize this and we still want to play it, regardless. Myself, I will play it to death even without the remaster, but since we have the remaster coming and the developers are actively searching out really popular suggestions, I am merely here supporting the more controversial/active suggestions.
It actually is in the end - not directly, however. I’d imagine their intent is simply to just provide us with our beloved Diablo 2. But to not directly compete with its competition and peers is going to put the game in a bad spot financially for Blizzard. It’ll be another game running on their hardware that won’t generate the revenue that Activision expects out of a Blizzard IP - and say it does, will it hold the playerbase? Absolutely not. People new to the franchise or Diablo 2 will not stay for something that is less accessible and optimized than the games already out. Those servers will be dismantled before 5 years down the road because they’ll be redundant expenses and that never looks good to investors or your CEO/leads.
I don’t think that. I know that, but I’m not saying you’re any better or any worse for it, but that your choice to deny something without fact and would prefer to stay in that mind set is not okay. I am not once at any point saying you’re wrong for wanting the game to stay in its current state either, I entirely support it. I also entirely support the features on factual evidence, whether or not I want them.
A large number of threads and posts without basis, just nostalgia, misty eyes and then the bunch that just want the game to stay as is. ALL OF THEM are in the right for doing what they do, just make sure you’re not one of them that says it’s because “that is how the game was meant to be played”, because it literally isn’t. It’s how we have been playing it, and at one point became mystified by the game’s features because it went so long without something to compare it to.
You can deny them if you just want the game to stay the same. By. All. Means. I wouldn’t mind it to stay the same too, and I will become a broken record in saying so - so you can paint me as the enemy all you want, because I’m just informing, not trying to convert you. It might seem that I am trying to convert you because I am attacking the judgement that the features are being denied for nostalgia or misinformation, not the person. I appreciate it have so many people that are hell-bent on impressing that they want to keep the game the same or not contain certain features that other people want.
deeeeeeep breath
Moving on!
Again, being misinformed about the game’s tainted past, mysticism, nostalgia or just plain don’t want the game to change. Doesn’t mean that it won’t improve the game. They literally do not prove anything except that there’s a lot of people who just don’t want the feature. I’ve done nothing but provide fact backed and observation based information as to why I claim it is harmless.
4 patches in a 4 month span, literally 1 a month, to fix bugs that remained bugged for some time after until the major content patches (and still many patches later fixing more bugs but not providing fixes to stuff I’m mentioning in this list) and then several attempts to fix duping, aura glitching/stacking and prevent botting, to the end that they are still present today, skills that are underperforming and people are vocally asking too for those to be fixed/balanced, the “Realm Down” bug for joining too many games too quickly, the lobby list not displaying anything if you’ve moved around lobbies too quickly or joined and left a game too quickly too many times, Mercenary AI being as bad as something expected from 1999 when they game survived under Blizzard North’s mantle until 2003/2005…
Need I go on?
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These are merely your opinions. I know some gamers think easier= better, less choices = better, but you can’t honestly think everyone agrees with you on that aspect and that it is anything close to unbiased?
Of course, who wouldn’t want to run around with +13 all skills and no downside, yay, look at me, all my chars are much stronger and I can pickup whatever I want, hurray!!
No. That’s not good game design. Tradeoffs are good game design, not just +power for no reason.
“Improve the game” …asinine argument that this is some established fact.
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Again, explain to me why not being able to simply pick up more items is breaking the camel’s back??? I don’t understand! All I want to do is know, know, know and know some more. If you can provide information regarding why this should not be allowed and why I am wrong for backing it, then please enlighten me.
It literally improves the game because it is allowing you to do what the game was designed to do, loot loot loot loot loot loot. Oh, and loot. Did I say loot? I’m not sure, so I’ll say it again, loot!
Why in the world would you trade off your ability do something that doesn’t absolutely nothing but improve your quality of life, for picking up one item at a time? Does it work better? No. Do you like it? Yes. Does it taste good?.. Well, I’m not sure if that’s possible – but!.. Anyway, sarcastic slapstick fun aside - I’m not seeing how it doesn’t improve it and how you view it as asinine and that it isn’t fact.
To improve the game with a feature that does what the game already does as is that doesn’t grant any more power, but allows you to do what the game is designed for, I’d say this is a pretty strong reason to allow it.
Uh…? When did we go on to comparing the games skill systems? I was merely comparing their item hunting aspect via inventory restraints and the lack thereof. They just decided that they wanted their power to remain in the items. It’s no different than say if they wanted to put that extra hypothetical power in a charm inventory themselves!
And here you go BS, baseless crap. You just through out ALL criticism of charm inventory, by insulting the people that dont want it by claiming all there opinions are just them being blinded by nostalgia.
LOL, after you throw out any criticism by flagging it at Pure Nostalgia. Sure your factual, in what world?
You list a lot of bugs, balance and exploits. None of these make the Games SYSTEMS Broken. Literally none of them. Are items not working? Do they not apply their stats? Can you place armor in weapon slots? Are Charms not giving stats in inventory? No, the games main systems are working as intended, they arent Broken. You just dont like them.
You just dont like the cost of Charms. Well guess what, Stuff has a cost. Armor has costs to use, weapons have costs to use. So do Charms.
You literally saying anyone who disagrees with you on Charms Inventory are blinded by nostalgia. And have nothing to stand on because You are correct because You say so.
You want your Cake and to eat it too. Its that Simple. You Want ALL the Benefits of Charms and NONE of the Costs. Thats what a Charm Inventory is. You want all the buff none of the trade off.
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