Marauder's 4pc Pre-PTR Change

Demon Hunter
70

Of course, I think set leaderboards are one of the best changes that Blizz implemented. For instance I would have skipped the season if GoD was the only DH build that could place me on the DH leaderboards.

Nevertheless, it’s still an important matter which build is strongest for the overall class leaderboard. There are two main reasons for this. First, it’ll be the most played build for that class and therefore the one with the most competition, making pushing it the most interesting. Second, like it or not, there is still inherent value attached to getting rank for the “strongest” build for a class.

71

I agree, getting ranked can be important. With GoD, I usually push hard at the beginning of the season. Get into the top 100 and then by seasons end, even if I don’t spend any of the rest of season pushing, I get a spot in the top 500, good enough for me.

I just dig GoD too much at the moment to go back to UE and don’t compete on those boards. SSF means, I’m putting my main set together and don’t have the time or ability to put together a really good second set.

But M6 peaks my interest and gives me an excuse to play something else and it’s mainly the auto-firing sentries for me and not any “well it’s the flavor of the month build and I have to play it”. Hell, I intend to play a chakram build next season and I already know that won’t be the meta build. But I’ll play it because it’s what I want to play and screw the leaderboards.

Point is, There’s nothing wrong with playing something you like. If you’re having fun, you’re doin’ it right.

Like I said, though. Sometimes the leaderboards are important to me and other times they aren’t.

I once spent nearly an entire season just running GR 55 with different weak GoD builds, bola’s, entangling shot, even HA with those items in the cube and running with crafted legendaries in main hand and off-hand. Finagling the builds so that they would run GR 55 in 4-6 min in an effort to get one chosen as a challenge rift.

I built them right with correct rolls but kept my crit chance under 50%, crit dam 200%-250%, rcr so I didn’t need vengeance to strafe. All that.

And that was about the most fun I had in a season.

But that’s just me.

72

what rank are you currently “pushing” in s24?

73

Really dislike people like roninone, he is just either trolling or just plain selfish.

Claims to be “pushing” leaderboards, but I dont see anything evidence of that.

Basically what he is saying is:
“Blizzard please buff the build I like to play to be the strongest META because I say I want to push the leaderboards, but I dont actually bother to push”
“I dont like to see builds I dislike buffed to be the META because I would feel obliged to play it but I wont enjoy it”
“Other people enjoy it? I dont care, because I am selfish and attention seeking, and only what I want matters, so listen to me please Blizzard”

To me, why bother with what playstyle, as long as it is within the same DH class, you can easily farm gear for both as you play.

For me I plan to farm items first with GoD DH for speeds and QoL, while gathering pieces of M6 or S6 to push higher leaderboards.
For XP it boils down to which can do the highest XP/Hour which we arent even sure off yet.

1 Like
74

So funny, that most of you seem hyped for a change that is just something they took away earlier. Autoshooting Sentries…WOW, what a big change, so huge!

Awesome how less it takes to make people happy about the game and they take it and love Blizzard for that kind of service. xD

Revert old code and, remove a 400% multiplier interaction and call it balance.

I wish you all the best, i guess, it is the new look on people: don’t expect anything…

Good loot in S25, with 0 reward

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75

Actually, he’s right. You’re forgetting that there’s sentry damage on the rucksack (100%) as well as sentry damage on chest and shoulders. Since you don’t benefit from any of the damage bonuses here, this means that you’re contributing roughly ~4% of the damage, if that.

Imagine playing pickup basketball with Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James and Steph Curry on your team. Sure you can run around the court it make it look like you’re doing something, but the reality is that you provide abysmal value to the team, to the point where you might as well just sit on the bench and let them play 4v5. Some players are perfectly ok with being the hype man on the sidelines watching the game, but others may feel like they want to be able to bring value in some sort of way, but it’s impossible with a squad like that on your team. This is why TimberWolf’s comment about Participating is disingenuous.

With that said though, I dug up some old M6 recorded videos of mine to do some more analysis. Old M6 had 3 tiers of spenders. Using the 2.17 “standard” BP, this was the breakdown:

Tier 1: Chakram and Elemental arrow. These replaced the sentries projectile, and fired every time at the attack speed.

Tier 2: Multishot and Impale. These fired every 3rd sentry projectile, meaning for every 3 projectiles fired by the sentry, one was replaced with either multishot or impale.

Tier 3: Cluster arrow. This fired every 6th projectile. For every 6 projectiles, one was a cluster arrow.

Changing the BP changes this behavior a little bit, but for simplicity purposes, I’m using 2.17. How the build worked back then was that you placed 1 spender of each tier onto your bar so that your sentry never fired a “normal” projectile. The most popular combination at the time was frost arrow EA, arsenal MS and Loaded for bear CA. It was visually pleasing to watch the sentries rotate through these skills and mass murder everything on the screen.

This is what people remember about the build, but after looking at it a bit more, I don’t think it’s going to case this time around. Back then we didn’t have massive multipliers to legendaries, therefore each Tier dealt around a similar window of damage over a period of time. Since we cannot fit legendaries for all 3 tiers of spenders, we’ll need to choose one and buff it massively. This means the visual Armageddon we saw back in the day won’t exist, and we’ll see “normal” sentry projectiles, as the only viable option atm is multishot due to it’s multipliers. It’ll mean you’ll also have to fire yourself quite a bit if you want your sentries to have any decent rate of shooting multishots as sentries firing less than 1 multishot per second at 2.17 is pretty “meh”.

If (big emphasis on if) they did restore M6’s autocast feature exactly the way it was, then I have a feeling that people will be disappointed because it’s not going to have the nostalgia effect people remember due to how much itemization has changed since season 1. Unless they change how autocast works, I don’t see either camp being thrilled on the first iteration of PTR unless it’s clearing GR 150 at 2k para.

1 Like
76

Well said!

But it’s the fact that N6/M4 isn’t THE sentry build that I’m pretty hyped about. They gave M6 back it’s identity which is important in it’s own right. Auto-fire or no auto-fire, I’ll play the set. But if they’re going to give it auto-fire it’ll give me a chance to at least experience a little of the original M6.

If it turn’s out that folks are disappointed, I’m not sure there’s anything Blizzard can do about that. But…

If they buff a couple of items in addition to giving M6 back it’s identity then I don’t think folks will complain too much.

Edit:

Also, I’ve got those attack speed F&R from my Gizzard UE set, so all I’ll really need is to get some gloves with attack speed on them and use the ancient Dawn that I got this season with Cooldown and 5% attack speed natural and I should be right around the 3 APS break point with Gogok and enchantress.

So maybe it’ll feel a little better to me.

Edit #2:

If that doesn’t do it for me, I could run SoIW and Rucksack with Panacia in the cube. I’ve got good primals of the sword and Rucksack, so maybe a dual spender might be possible with elemental arrow and chakram if I can get some rcr rolls for crimsons on shoulders and use a topaz in the helm, might be able to make that work.

It’ll be weak unless items get buffed, but you know me, I’m not always looking for the meta build.

Edit #3:

This is coming from a guy that played UE season after season even though Shadow was out doing by around 5 GR’s or more before GoD came on the scene though.

Edit #4:

Might even throw Mealstrom or Loaded for Bear in there just for eye candy and to give the sentries something else to fire.

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Holy S, what happened to this thread? Too much arguing, needs more solution. Sometimes all of the tools are already in the game to simulate how a build will play.

Out of sheer curiosity, I took M4CC3 for a spin with Spitfire (rocket) turrets and Odyssey’s End, Taskers and Echoing Fury. There was no hatred spender advantage at all, just pure autosentry firing.

It cleared GR85 in 12:33, otherwise GR116 post-patch. I also tried Chains of Torment and Impaling Bolt.

The play was semi active with the Spitfire turrets, but felt most active with Impaling Bolts. Impaling Bolts was theoretically the strongest rune, you literally have to line up your trash to kill it efficiently. It was a glimpse into Richchet vs Overpenetration, and it was evident how much stronger the latter is when you first enter a new area with lots of trash.

Multishot has a big cone compared to Impaling Bolts, it is not going to miss, nor does it allow Odyssey’s End to be equipped, which brings me to this next vital point:

Odyssey’s End forces an active play style. In addition to moving to pull new trash and strategically placing Sentries you have entangle them.

So here is my suggestion for how to fix this whole thing so everyone feels enthused, those who want to keep Multishot active, those who want Odyssey’s End and Taskers with Cluster Arrow, and those who want to ensure the top end gameplay stays active:

Marauder’s Encasement (4-piece bonus):
Your damage is increased by 200%. Sentries cast Elemental Arrow, Chakram, Impale, Multishot, and Cluster Arrow when you do, as well as automatically cast your equipped Hatred spenders.

Marauder’s Encasement (6-piece bonus):
Your primary skills, Elemental Arrow, Chakram, Impale, Multishot, Cluster Arrow, Companions, Vengeance, and Sentries deal 12000% 10000% increased damage for every active Sentry.

The distribution of Sentry:Player damage shifts from:

Before: 7813:781.3 Total: 8594.3
After: 6513:1953.9 Total: 8466.9

In the dev’s latest revision, you don’t even lose 1 GR if you play it lazy. After this proposed change, you will lose 2GRs playing lazy.

This change will NOT impact any other build as N6 Rapid Fire becomes completely unplayable solo if you try to play without Dawn/Aughild. You might get a small bump in S2M4 FoK, but that’s about it.

Does this seem reasonable?

3 Likes
78

It’s a bad excuse. The solution was to introduce a stronger, more engaging build using another set. They eventually did this with UE. There was no reason to butcher M6 at the time… rather, the effort should have been put into getting UE out sooner.

The old M6 was my favourite build in the game. After a long day of work, playing a not so engaging build was great! I was originally quite happy to see Typhons as it kinda brought back the M6 playstyle… and then they made all the support legendaries too engaging. I’m hoping the M6 rebirt doesn’t go overboard with engaging us.

79

New build idea…

SoIW/Rucksack/Panacea in the cube.
Chakram (cold)/Elemental Arrow (cold)/Multishot Cold on the bar.
Gems: BotT/Iceblink/Gogok

Idea: Try for the 3.0 breakpoint. The Sentries act as their own zdps getting crit chance from Multishot and Iceblink so you can replace a few crit chance rolls with area damage. While also replace physical dam on the rings with attack speed.

Mobs are slowed so you should be able to keep Squirt’s up. Probably use Grenades/Cache as your generator for F&R.

Won’t be the most powerful build because SoIW needs a buff for that. But I’m thinking 110 at between 1000-1500 paragon might be doable.

Someone else will probably have better figures.

Anyway, this what I’m going to test first.

Edit:

The question is: Will sentries fire Multishot or Elemental Arrow if you can’t use the skill on account of using a melee weapon.

80

it is. autocast means that hatred cost is not the most important thing anymore…

but what constructive feedback can we possibly expect from a bitter german with 1600 paragon non-season?

81

The sentries attack super slow. Multishot with Taskers was like 1APS. Much to think about.

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82

Can’t go with a double double secondary either as far as I can tell. At least not while using SoIW. Sentries don’t fire elemental but will multishot. I’m not sure if this is intended.

But it looks to be your big spenders that it’ll shoot automatically and do chakram, it’ll only fire when you do.

So the active playstyle is in. I don’t know if this is a bug or intended though.

Also I forgot about enforcer in my previous post.

83

a guy in the stream said turret multishot hits twice < 60% health

84

I was under the impression it does.

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85

That was a really old bug in 2.2.0 - 2.3.0. The double hit power was added to DML in 2.2.0. It was fixed in 2.3.0 as far as I’m aware. I had made a detailed bug report about it on the old forums, and I remember testing it briefly after 2.3.0 to confirm it was fixed.

Unless it was reverted at some point since then?

Fixed an issue that prevented Dead Man’s Legacy from affecting Multishot when cast by Marauder’s Sentries

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86

Well, I must say, that I AM a bit disappointed.

The 4-piece should read “Your sentries will fire Multi-shot, Cluster Arrow, Elemental Arrow, OR Chakram automatically and when you do” Not And because that’s not what it does.

87

what exactly are you referring to?

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If you try to equip to secondaries like Elemental Arrow and Chakram and Multishot. The sentries will fire Multishot automatically, but not Elemental Arrow or Chakram, Those only fire when you do. So you can’t for instance wield SoIW and run with Augustine’s, because you can’t fire Elemental Arrow.

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89

in that case you should create a bug in the ptr forum

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