Making Rare and Magic Items useful in D4

General Discussion
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I like the idea that wen you find a Legendary Item that it fees like a good upgrade if you are currently have a Magic or Rare Item equipped in that slot, however, it also would be frustrating if Rare and Magic Items are useless in the endgame, so what to do?

A solution that I came up with is to have Crafting Recipes that upgrade Rare and Magic Items (assuming that there is away to do so, for example with something like a Cube or an Artisan).

You keep the original effect of the Rare/Magic Item and improve upon it. This would look different for Rare and Magic Items and I decided it is a good idea to double own on what these items already do.

  • Rare Items have More Affixes than Magic Items, but their maximum Affix Rolls are lower than those of a Magic Item
  • Magic Items have less Affixes than Rare Items, but their maximum Affix Rolls are higher than those of Rare Items.

E.g. a Rare Item can roll with up to 6 Affixes and a Magic Item can roll with up to 2 or 3 Affixes. A Rare Chest Armor might roll with up to +400 Armor, but Magic Chest Armors can roll with up to +450 Armor. (the numbers are obviously just examples for the purpose of illustrating the concept)

To double down on this idea via a crafting recipe, Magic Items could have their 2-3 Affixes increased by anywhere between 30% to 100% randomly, while Rare Items have a Recipe that adds +1 Random Affix to them that are at e.g. 75% of their normal power (and the recipe can be done 2 or 3 times).

Please keep in mind that the numbers, the affixes and the way the items are displayed are just for illustrating the concept. I didn’t have anything better available than D3 screenshots at the time of making this.

This would allow Magic and Rare Items to be (more) viable in the lategame, while it also would come at a cost (crafting materials or gold, or whatever), while also keeping the identity of Magic and Rare Items. And you also first had to find the right base.

This is one way of doing it.

Maybe other members of the community have other ideas on how to make Rare and Magic Items more useful in the late-/endgame.

EDIT:
In regards to the argument that people don’t wanna pick up every item and check if it is good or not, there are LOOT FILTERS and Salvage Filters to solve that problem!

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You’re playing to much path of exile. lmao

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i dont know why you wouldnt just drop them in a way that they can compete with legendary items
but crafting is always nice^^

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After going back to Grim Dawn, Rare and Magic Items have to be useful
It makes chasing the sets and by sets if they stay should be two to three items in sets to stop the X 1500% to X Skill.
Rare and Magic Items compliment builds with skill enhancements, kind of unique Rare and Magic Items, in Grim Dawn you have MI items, Monster Infrequent drops that builds are made around.

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I don’t even play that much PoE.
What makes this so similar to PoE’s crafting?

1 - Because then you can make Legendaries that are really, really “beafy” and it feels really good when you get a legendary that gives you a huge bonus when it is dropping.

2 - it keeps the progression curve from “White Item → Magic Item → Rare Item → Legendary”, but in the end it comes ful circle again with Runewords (White Items), Upgraded Magic Items, Upgraded Rare Items and Legendaries competing with each other.

3 - And also because crafting is fun as you said.

Also, I think that Legendaries should be the BiS Items is certain slots, like Chest Armor, Weapons and Off-Hand, while (upgraded) Magic and Rare Items are the BiS Items in some other slots (for example lets say in the Bracer, Helm and Belts), while in other slots Legendaries and (upgraded) Rare & Magic Items are competing with each other (like in Rings, Amulets, Boots, etc.).

It was similar like this in Diablo 2 where Uniques and Runewords were always the best in Chest Armor, Weapon and Off-Hand Slots, while in the other Slots they were often competing with Rare and Magic Items and I thought that was really great.

Many D2 Players & Veterans also feel like that.
It makes itemization more interesting and diverse.

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here:

Diablo does not have ‘affixes’ they have primary and secondary. Affixes and Prefixes are in POE not diablo. so/

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Item Affixes have always been a part of the Diablo series.
Diablo 2 had them long before PoE:

And even Diablo 3 has Item Affixes (or at least that is how players are referring to them since a long time):
http://wireframewebsolutions.com/d3affix/

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One thing I do enjoy about magic and rare items being effectively crafting materials is that they function as an automatic loot filter.

When you level up you care about them but as they get replaced with legendaries, you spend more time killing stuff and you know what is worth checking vs what is just materials.

In the games that have tried to stick closely to the formula of magic/rare items being impactful, they have had to handle this with often poor implementations of loot filters.

D3 has issues with legendary power and obviously that is not something we want for D4, regardless of how they handle the loot (because of it’s impact on build diversity)

But for me personally, I have no problem with every item being of “legendary” rarity and for those items to outclass the rares. Providing those legendary items can hold better item complexity.

Typically legendary items are associated in D3 with their overpowered effects, that’s not what I’m talking about here - I’m just talking about the concept of having an item tier that is clearly defined above rare that allows players to focus on that loot rather than manically checked every small thing that drops or have a unnecessarily complex loot filter system.

Personally, I’d like to see a return of uniques and then keeping legendary as the core rarity for a max level character with magic and yellow being primarily leveling items.
Otherwise we’re going to end up with loot filters and personally, I think they detract from the experience when the game could be designed to make them effectively unnecessary.

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If you find a magic or rate that has better optimized stats and or affixes that’s fine. I don’t think they need to compete with legendaries at all. Legendaries should always be more powerful. However, I would not allow ADA stats on them at all, maybe just ADA bonuses. That way you could increase the viability of yellow and blue items without making them as powerful or on par with legendaries.

I would still mix them into crafting like D3, or allow them to be be a base for improvement like making in the example in the OP. But they don’t need to compete. Keep the ADA stats on them so you have to choose to keep or go for the bonuses or got straight throughput with legendary affixes.

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Please don’t make Rare and Magic items useful in D4. Stat stick items are bad and bland.

Please make D4 legendary as powerful as D3 legendary and D2 high tier runewords. The current D4 legendary power feel so weak.

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There is an easy way around this issue:

Put the “Loot Filter” on the Salvage Button of an Artisan (like the D4 equivalent to D3’s Blacksmith), so that only those Rare and Magic items get salvaged that don’t fulfill the requirements you set, while the Magic Items that you do want remain intact.

For example, if you are looking for Magic Gloves with at least 8% Crushing Blow and at least 11% increased Attack Speed, you can put that in the “Salvage Filter” and all Magic Gloves that do not fulfill these requirements get salvaged.

That way you still can kill and pick up everything and when you return to town, you just make one click and everything that is does not fit your set requirements is gone and you then check out the rest of the remaining pieces.

What if you had to get some rare legendary ingredients that you need to upgrade a Magic Item, or a Legendary Consumable (similar to Radmaladni’s Gift) that adds a Random Affix to a Rare Item (and Rare Items only)?.

In general, Crafting is something that players like.

As mentioned above, that could be solved with a “Salvage Filter”.

What do you suggest should be the difference between a Unique Item and a Rare Item and a Legendary?

I definitely would like if in SOME equipment slots Rare and Magic Items are the best (like for D3 that could have been Shoulders and Pants), while in others Legendaries, Sets and Runewords (if they implement D2 like Runewords) are the best, while in some slots they could compete with each other.

Imagine if in D3 Sets would rather be optional than mandatory, and you could craft some amazing Shoulders and Pants that complement your build by softening its weakness or increasing its strengths… I think that would be a lot of fun.

I personally would not want to so ADA Power at all, because it is not a good replacement for actual Attributes. Rather I would like to see an improved version of D2’s Attribute System.

Yes, I agree with that.

imo legendaries should be better by default than (un-upgraded) Rare and Magic Items, but perfectly or nearly-perfectly rolled Upgraded Magic and Rare Items should be able to compete with legendaries in some slots…

…while in other slots upgraded Rare and Magic Items still would not be able to compete with (endgame) Legendaries.

Making Upgraded Rare and Magic Items very good in some slots is what would make crafting fun in the endgame.

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I’d rather ADA be a paragon like system or additional skill tree like thing removing all ADA stats and bonuses from gear and putting it all in a seperate system to further customize your character. My suggestion was set withing what we have currently.

But I disagree with they should be a best in slot for anywhere. I’d rather legendaries be your first choice but it depends. How many legendaries will there be? Will there be a legendary for each slot attributed to each skill? Doubtful, so in that case you may end up having some since there might be slots that don’t have useful legendaries for your build. But if players want to use them they are free to do so.

However, if they are going to make enough legendaries for every skill at every slot I wouldn’t see a need for me personally to use anything but because I like skill modifiers. That is why I suggested no ADA stuffs on legendaries to encourage those that want to min/max that stuff the opportunity for blues and yellows to be must haves.

But again I like the reliance on legendaries and hope for my latter example so I can have like 9+ WW modifiers on my spin to win Barb. :smiley:

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Truthfully speaking I think it would be good if rare or magic had wearable uses in endgame, or at least a use where you could craft them into a new type of item tier that’s different from legendary. This way even if a build you made for yourself doesn’t have a key legendary item that could help it; you could definitely settle for a good magic or rare item, assuming that magic or rare had inherent bonuses (like more affixes than what legendary items could have).

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I like the upgrading items aspect. Since I am mostly against crafting full items from the ground up, upgrading dropped items is a much better use of a crafting system.

I dont think there is much reason to make magic items useful though. Rares can offer everything magic items offer (like if rares can double roll the same affix). Not strongly against making magic items useful however.
Of course, if magic items cant compete in end-game, they might as well stop dropping in end-game.

Agreed. Customizable loot filters can be useful for noticing the specific items you are interested in.

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That would definitely be better than having ADA Power itself on gear.
Although I am not a big fan of ADA Power at all, I would very much prefer it if ADA Power was its own, separate system. That also would make some Affixes on items being gated behind ADA Power much better.

D4 has this weird itemization philosophy where a lot of Affixes spawn in packs of two:

  • Crit Chance and Crit Damage
  • Crushing Blow Chance and Crushing Blow Damage
  • ADA Power and Affixes that are being gated behind ADA Power

I think that is not a good idea to let these affixes spawn in packs, since it reduces diversity of viable affixes on item, just like Crit Damage and Crit Chance did in D3, so if they would get rid of ADA Power on items, that would be a step in the right direction for me, although I would like to see it gone completely.

That is again a thing where it boils down to personal preferences, so tastes differ.

I prefer it the same way.

I like the idea of hunting for a good base that you the can upgrade.
It is like finding a good socketed base white item in Diablo 2 that you could use for a runeword.

It would give Magic Items a use, just like White Items got a use again in D2, by allowing them to be used as a base for Runewords.

In this specific context I was not talking about a Loot Filter, but rather about a “Salvage Filter”, if that makes sense.

A “Salvage Filter” would allow you to pick up everything and then everything you don’t want gets salvaged with the click of a button without you having to go through it. And the items that fulfill your requirements remain and then you can look through them before deciding if you wanna salvage them as well or keep them.

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Too tedious for me. I don’t want to have to look through every rare or magic item.

I appreciate your effort though - it’s just not for me.

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Let me respond to that with a quote of mine from this thread:

There is an easy way around this issue:

Put the “Loot Filter” on the Salvage Button of an Artisan (like the D4 equivalent to D3’s Blacksmith), so that only those Rare and Magic items get salvaged that don’t fulfill the requirements you set , while the Magic Items that you do want remain intact.

For example, if you are looking for Magic Gloves with at least 8% Crushing Blow and at least 11% increased Attack Speed, you can put that in the “Salvage Filter” and all Magic Gloves that do not fulfill these requirements get salvaged.

That way you still can kill and pick up everything and when you return to town, you just make one click and everything that is does not fit your set requirements is gone and you then check out the rest of the remaining pieces.

I maybe should copy and paste this in my original post since this has been broad up several times already…

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So we’d have to carefully inspect every single item that dropped in game? And hoard all of it because maybe possibly it could be rerolled or upgraded or augmented? Hard pass.

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No, not at all.

There are Loot Filters for that…

And Salvage Filters as well.

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Or they could just do it like they did it in Diablo 2. That worked pretty well.