Unfortunately some people will never get it no mather how many arguments you have…
I never liked the chantodo’s vyr’s build although I tried it once, but also never asked to nerf it same with necromancers or any other “outliers” out there…
I want that every class can enjoy the game and take no pleasure from any nerfs to any class at all…
All this awful nonsense about “balance” ignores the reality of the game.
The 140 cat is out of the bag. Several classes are capable of 140+ or very close to it. From Diablo Progress for Season 18/non-Season:
Wizard 143/144
Barb 130/133
DH 131/139
Monk 129/134
WD 136/140
Crus 135/138
Necro 140/142
Do you see, my kittens? 140 is the new bar by which successful class clears are evaluated. Vyrs and Necro might have broken the pinata, but non-Season DHs, WDs, and Crusaders have all been gobbling candy–or very close.
If you’re thinking ahead to Season 19, well, don’t. The Season buff in PTR was ludicrously strong, and any and all Seasonal PTR clears should be ignored. If there’s anything that needs a nerf, it’s the S19 Kill Streak bonuses.
My point is that 140 is the new norm and Barbs can finally join that party. My point is also that there is never going to be perfect “balance” in a game, and that “balance” is not predicated upon numbers alone. In other words, “balance” is not necessarily a state in which all classes are within 1-3 GRs of one another–and it never can be–because different builds will always perform better or worse depending on GR conditions.
If you’re waiting for the day when all builds across all classes are relatively equal–if that’s your idea of “balance”–FORGET IT. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
It’s not an inherently bad goal, but it’s not remotely realistic given the time and resources available to the Classic Games Team that is currently updating D3.
Barbs are lucky that 1 spec that doesn’t rely on wall-charging can hit 140. Would it be nice to buff all the others to get in that range? OF COURSE!
Is that ever going to happen?
NO!
Does that mean you should advocate for “balance” if it means bringing classes down to some outdated 135 range?
HELL FRIGGIN’ NO!
KNOCK IT OFF. STOP ASKING FOR NERFS.
What should you ask for?
In a game where statistical GR numbers increases go from tier 1 to 150, there is nothing but powercreep. If you don’t like it, you’re playing the wrong game.
Lets think this through relative to the initial patch 2.6.7 notes. In patch 2.6.7, they are nerfing both wizards and necromancers who cleared 144 and 142 in non-season. They buffed barbarians which was needed given their top era clear is 133.
They should also buff monks.
Balance may be difficult but it should be the goal. Having overpowered classes does not increase the fun of the entire playerbase.
Was the game more fun for barbs in season 1 or season 2 where they were not part of the 4-man meta and pathetic in terms of power in comparison to marauder DH? The class that I played most was DH. That maruader DH build needed to be nerfed for the overall good of the game.
I have never said that barbs should stay bad. My suggestion is to simply decrease the lamentation rend buff from 150%-200% to a flat 100%. Do you honestly think making that one change will make barbs “bad” given all the other buffs? Your hyperbole does not persuade.
It’s fine to not like broccoli.
It’s not fine to prevent people who like broccoli from eating it.
It’s fine to not like an elected polition.
It’s not fine to tell people they’re not allowed to vote for them.
It’s fine to not like the colour orange.
It’s not fine to tell people that they shouldn’t be allowed to use the colour orange.
It’s fine for me to like Barbs.
It’s fine for you to not like Barbs.
It’s not fine for you to tell me that Barbs have to stay bad.
Your posts reek of conformation bias 
As to point #2, have you heard of population bias? WW/rend was buffed to likely top tier build and everyone wanted to try it out. Not only were most of the barb mains playing it on PTR but everyone else and their brother were playing it.
I don’t have a problem with your premise, that barb was over buffed and could possibly become an outlier, but the data, arguments, and the agenda that you have are biased. The fact that you won’t take any input from others and continue to push your agenda is frustrating.
I’ll refer you to your own statement again:
If you truly believe what you wrote then why do you keep pushing your agenda?
This game has never had balance. Now all of the sudden there are all of these people saying we can’t have this barb buff and it needs to be nerfed. It is out of control and from most of the posters it is coming from a place of pettiness and not an actual desire for balance. We’ve had 18 seasons folks and balance has not been there in any consistency during that entire period. But now there is outrage over balance??
The comparison was PTR barb to live era. I know that people can not compare PTR clears. I have repeatedly corrected posters who made this error. People do push their favorite class on the live server.
I have never said that barbs should not be buffed. I just prefer a slightly reduced rend damage number on lamentation relative to the PTR (Public Test Realm). This is a test realm. Some numbers change in the final patch relative to the PTR, because things are being tested.
I know exactly what you stated and you missed my point. Even comparing live clears to barb PTR clears…is population bias.
Everyone was testing it out not just barb mains.
MWHAHAHAHA
This man is a frickin artist! And guess what? HE IS GDAMN RIGHT
What greater rift does a barb need to clear not to be considered bad in your mind?
The hyperbole in this thread :).
There have always been concerns about balance. Since you talked about seasons, we can start there. The first two seasons had 2 marauder DHs in the 4 man meta and they were also top solo DPS. Many in all class communities, including the barb community, called for nerfs to that build. They were right about the balance being off. I think that the nerf to my “favorite class” was clearly warranted.
On live non-seasonal, I’ve done a solo GR118 on my Impale DH (and been only a couple of seconds away from a 119 a few times). I think I’d struggle to get within 10 GR ranks of that on my WW Barb. Now think of how much of a power gap 10 GR ranks is…
(1.17)^10 = 4.8 times
It doesn’t matter as long as the barb builds can do what the other classes can do in every day game play. That’s my honest opinion. I compete on LBs against other barbs so it does not matter to me one bit how high the other classes can go.
I don’t understand why everyone is looking at the top end…it’s a very small minority. You should be concerned about balance in every day game play especially in the speed range, because that’s where the majority of play time is…
I don’t know where any of what you just wrote is coming from or what your point is…
Is it justification or a way to rationalize your balance crusade??
After your extensive testing of the new Rend build in the PTR how far did you take the build? I took the build to GR 118 and I see you have set the benchmark at 126 as a average, I never seen your name even close to that number, as a matter of fact I didn’t see your name on the Leader Board at all and at the time 118 was around the middle of the pack, and I looked for names I recognized both higher and lower and I must of missed yours. OR
Did you test the PTR Rend Build at all and either used other peoples numbers, graphs and modify other peoples tables or did you just pull all those numbers you are using out of your hat?
Maybe answer your own question about Barb clears and see where it gets you.
Oh yes, I was going to point out to you again, Diablo III has never been balanced from day 1 and as far as I can see there never will be any real balance in this game even if the Dev’s wanted to.
In a nutshell, this is correct, and likely a great way to look at it.
If we vacuum results of said player from one build to another, the variables are a constant because it is that same player.
If we then compare the power needed to clear with build X compared to the old WW Barb, I have a feeling the results would fall in line with a traditional standard deviation.
So if we need to buff WW 4.8 times what it is to match DH impale, and you could do GR130 with your Chantodo’s, then we really need (1.17)^22 = 31.63 times the strength to compete.
I think players need to let that sink in a little bit before they comment any further!
The numbers I used in my example are speculative, it is to simply show a point at the massive power disparity alone!
I 100% agree with this statement. People should stop worrying about the top clears for balance… All the top pushes are outliers by definition. I think the bottom 1k leaderboard spot is more telling than the #1 spot.
To add to this, the barbs bottom 1k spot is gr 100 in like 9 minutes. Necro is gr 100 in like 2 minutes. Demon hunter is gr 110 and wiz is gr 120. Huge class disparity there and the barbs are by far and wide lagging the most (figuratively and literally).
Everybody agrees that the barb needs buffs. These buffs were mostly good. Some of us think that it should be changed a little bit. Doesn’t mean we aren’t pro barb.
There are still problems with using the bottom clears as representative data as well. You have to consider population bias and the classes would have to be weighted accordingly. I’m pretty sure Necromancer is the least played class and is likely the result of the disparity in clears from top to bottom. Necro is the second highest clearing class but the cut off to get in the top 1000 is the same as one of the lowest clearing classes? I highly suspect that is due to lack of people playing necromancer.
I posted the rough gr clear times there to show the disparity. The necros with 100 gr clears in bottom 1k but did it in like 2.5 minutes - they definitely could have pushed much further. Barbs clear time for that gr and leaderboard ranking is 3-4 times longer. Meaning that the barb is definitely underpowered. I think the necros just decided to hit gr 100 and call it good.
I did not read the whole thread but they nerfed the wrong aspect of Vyr/Chantodo… they should leave the attack speed and capped the number of DR stacks that Vyrs gives you… for a caster class they are super tanky… if I was a monk in any build, WD in any build or a non-Thorns Necro you can’t stay alive and still do any sort of damage to clear a 125+ rift without perfect gear, high paragon, high gem levels, and max —augments … the 1000 clear for a wiz in N.A. server is 120 …
To get back to my original point I don’t mind them throwing down some serious cheddar and meltin faces … but to meet face and have better survivability than str or dex class… is unbalanced.